Opinions on big game auction tags

[dgibson]

If I'm following LA's train of thought, there is a very big difference between legally buying a tag at auction and being fined for poaching. Admittedly, most fines should be greater, but one has nothing to do with the other. The DNR or whoever offers them and everybody involved knows what the purpose is. Is a single tag for a ram worth the tens of thousands that the DNR gets in return? I sure think so! I wish KY F&W could make money so easily. I'll never be able to afford those tags, but that's not the point.

 

[Lostagain]

Greenie, ur right.
I don't know how to explain my position, and I did a crappy job of explaining.
I still think that way, and if I can't convince myself of that reasoning then I'll change.

BTW, I know I didn't have too much green beer.

 

[Tom]

Is this what you were thinking? Say a guy is real rich and wants an animal. He sees he could get one in an auction with his money in a good area. He sees he could poach one in a good area for a similar price. Since he is a rich son of a gun, he chooses to poach it. I can see the argument, I just never imagined such a guy would really exist, there are other markets for him besides poaching. For one, he could pay some guide/outfitter less money and get that person to call one in for him on a guaranteed tag purchase in some states.

The state raffles off big hunts here too, it raises lots of money, but only one winner gets the big hunt. Then they put out pictures next year of the great stuff that winner got and more people buy more raffle tickets for next years big hunt. It makes money again. It takes a raffle ticket mentallity for a hunt though, or just somebody who doesn't mind making a small donation for a small chance at a big hunt.

Do any of them have a sexy woman guide that goes with the hunt? I bet that would raise the money raised. What do you think?

 

[JoseCuervo]

If there is a CPA that reads these, maybe the CPA can give us tax advice, but I think another major advantage of the Auction tag over Poaching/Jail/Fines method is that the high bidder can deduct the cost of the tag, above fair market value, from their taxes. I do not believe the IRS allows one to deduct Criminal fines, or some sort of deduction for the Grey Bar Hotel.

It seems like a stretch to think the big $$$ guys at the auctions are considering poaching these animals. I am sure there are plenty of bigg $$$ who would/do poach, but I bet their morals run them in different crowds, most of the time. I am sure there are many cases of Mr. Bigg$$$ getting caught with his hand in the cookie jar, but I think the risk on this one is pretty low.

Keep the auctions going, as I keep buying the raffle tickets on the other hunt. FNAWs loves my money....

 

[A-con]

It wouldn't be a problem if the penalty for poaching was automatic jail time, would it ?

I'm in favor of auction & raffel tags

 

[Ithaca 37]

Here's the story of this years auction!!!

"Idaho’s tag went for $90,000, and Washington’s garnered $50,000. The auction took in more than $1.7 million for 21 sheep tags, which is the most revenue taken in since 1998’s $1.86 million for 16 tags."

http://www.biggamehunt.net/sections/Oregon/Bighorn_Sheep_Auction_Tag_Sells_f or_78000_02030312.html

Let's hear some more from the anti-auction crowd!!

"Oregon Bighorn Sheep Auction Tag Sells for $74,000"

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/public/NewsArc/2002News/February/021202news.htm

"Oregon was one of many states and provinces in North America offering auction tags for wild sheep at the annual banquet. Bid prices ranged from $19,000 for an Alaskan dall sheep to $250,000 for a Rocky Mountain bighorn in Alberta. Idaho’s tag went for $47,500, and Washington’s garnered $49,500. The auction netted more than $1.6 million for 19 sheep tags.

Oregon also raffles a bighorn sheep tag each year. The drawing for the 2002 hunt will occur June 1 at the Oregon Hunters Association banquet in Canyonville. The 2001 raffle generated more than $42,000 for management programs, and organizers expect this year’s will bring similar proceeds. The deadline to buy raffle tickets through Point-of-Sale license agents is May 22. Tickets can also be purchased by mail order or at the OHA banquet. Since 1992, the raffle tag has generated nearly $370,000."

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 03-18-2003 23:20: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>

 

[Lostagain]

http://www.fwp.state.mt.us/news/show.aspx?id=1283

In the actual article in MT Outdoors by Sam Curtis was a line about how poaching using illegal tags or even no tags at all was a sure bet, the draw and the auctions were just maybes.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Explain how that remotely discredits the benefit of, or even has any relationship what-so-ever to MT's sheep, moose, or elk auction permits.

 

[Lostagain]

OK, I see that you are justifying the money from the 1 legal one to balance out, or excedes, the howevermany illegal ones.
That's a good argument. I just disagree.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Nope.. how does an auction permit promote poaching any more than a normal limited quota permit that is almost impossible to draw?

Maybe we shouldn't have a limited quota sheep hunt in MT because somebody might think it's a better idea to poach one.

Makes no sense, but that's ok. Everybody is entitled to an opinion I guess.

 

[FEW]

I can not even believe I am reading this shit. Lost, do you really believe that crap? or are you just that intent on arguing with everyone? Another question, do you even hunt? I get the feeling you have not spent much time at it. BTW shooting barnyard animals on your ranch doesnt count.

 

[cjcj]

i don`t see where anyone who can afford to spend a hundred thousand for a tag would POACH! why would they? for that kind of cash they could apply as a non-resident for an elk or deer tag in every state! and they would probably draw more than one tag, i say let the bidding go thru the roof, and take those big buck`s ,and put that money to good use.

 

[Ithaca 37]

I think Lost might be on to something with his theory.

Let's hear lots more, I'm entertained by it.

Confused, but entertained. Maybe I should re-think all my opinions about auction tags!

 

[Tom]

Is this what the idea is? Only one guy wins the bid, most are loosers in the bid. Those rich guys, who bid a lot, but didn't have the high bid, didn't get the tag and are sitting there with all that money in their hand. Then these poaching businesses, like the operations in his story, are sitting out the door. As the rich guys walk out of the auction, the poaching business guys, say, we'll get you one, give us the money.

I don't think the guys at the auctions are like that, but I don't know who those poacher guys sell too, or is it just poaching for themselves? Did the article say?

 

[The Hedgehog]

Somebody needs to spend more time out of Texas.

 

[Tom]

Huh, it was outfitters, that poaching article, and their clients. It doesn't have anything to do with your comment there GH, right?

"Operation Palmetto-Peach involved an outfitter located in Marietta, Ga. with ranch land near Broadus." ... The defendants lost a total of 12 years in hunting privileges in Montana and 12 other states and handed over trophy mounts from 36 animals. The case included the states of Montana, Georgia, and South Carolina.

Operation Rosebud involved two Forsyth area outfitters and generated $149,000 in federal and state fines and restitution. The investigation eventually resulted in 40 years of revoked hunting privileges in Montana and 12 other states for 21 state and seven federal defendants, worldwide hunting privileges revoked for a total of seven years and trophies from 54 animals were seized."

It looks like those two rings were poaching businesses but it didn't say who the customers were.

 

[The Hedgehog]

It doesn't have anything to do with auction permits.

I realize this is a very deep and confusing thread to follow.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Yup, Greenhorn, it's been a tough one to follow. I don't know if I'm supposed to be against auction permits and for poaching, or what!

 

[The Hedgehog]

Yes, Ithaca. You are right. You know, if you are for auction permits, then you obviously support poaching. Sorta like "drug money supports terrible things."

Next thing you know, there will be a commercial about this.

 

[Tom]

They both raise a lot of money, for animals that are killed, is that the idea? One, the bidder volunteers to pay, the other, he may volunteer or he/she may just get caught. Both raise money, but they are pretty different, it seems, to several here, eh? No one has established any link between poaching and auctions that I see. Unless, one argues that that big money is evil commercialization and therefore like evil poaching. Is that the idea?