Oh, the irony!

[TOGIE]

I cannot imagine a more bleak future for the planet than limitless energy in the hands of humans.

More energy is not the answer.

this is an interesting philosophical point.

i'm confident that i don't agree in the entirety of that thought. but i need to chew on it for a while.

i also, confidently, feel it's not that simple - collateral damage to our world and health from energy production is unavoidable. i personally think the focus should be on reducing that collateral damage rather than very far flung - albeit still important, to be sure - philosphicals regarding the potential evils of "limitless energy" that tangibly can't be answered.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Energy topics are hard. All I wanted to say - lots of stuff on media or quickly accessible is very slanted.

Its very hard to really know x vs. y on power pricing in the longest term for one source vs another. Its also very hard to see feasibility and long term costs - since nuclear, renewables, and o&g have vastly different upfront, operating, and remediation costs. Even just changing interest rates could dramatically effect each respective options profitability based on when they need capital. Now do material prices for something like nuclear components. Power prices are a whole other component - especially "when" during the day/season you are talking about selling it (depending on the market).

Anybody telling you they are certain about oil, coal, renewable, and/or nuclear being the perfect answer in perpetuity is pulling your leg.

To me - its going to take a robust grid with a variety of competitive generation sources to make us as Americans insulated from large price swings in prices.

 

[BrentD]

this is an interesting philosophical point.

i'm confident that i don't agree in the entirety of that thought. but i need to chew on it for a while.

i also, confidently, feel it's not that simple - collateral damage to our world and health from energy production is unavoidable. i personally think the focus should be on reducing that collateral damage rather than very far flung - albeit still important, to be sure - philosphicals regarding the potential evils of "limitless energy" that tangibly can't be answered.

Well, it is not a "philosophical" point to start with. It is pragmatic point of fact.

And while you ponder that, ponder this as well, to begin to get a grip on the magnitude of the problem. I do not think most people really grasp the enormity of humanity and all that trucks along with it.

https://www.sustainable.soltechdesigns.com/images/biomass-mammals2.gif

 

[TOGIE]

Well, it is not a "philosophical" point to start with. It is pragmatic point of fact.

And while you ponder that, ponder this as well, to begin to get a grip on the magnitude of the problem. I do not think most people really grasp the enormity of humanity and all that trucks along with it.

https://www.sustainable.soltechdesigns.com/images/biomass-mammals2.gif

you talk about a problem yet don't outline what exactly the problem(s) are.

that's okay, i'm really not gonna argue on this one.

 

[Hammsolo]

Sure you could say they get a helluva deal. Just not as good of deal as you get

I think we all should have equal access to everything all the time. We should all ensure this also, no matter what. If we can’t ensure it then we have to sell it off, and I should get a portion of the funds. I think this literally should include everything! Land? Yes. Animals? Yep. Water? Hell yep! Clean air? Why the hell not!!!

I demand a flight to Hawaii for a surf and turf hunt and fish right now. It’s just not fair if I don’t get it.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

The pipe dream has been realized.

Gen IV nuclear plants are in construction and there are plans for more.

TerraPower begins construction at 345-MW advanced reactor site in Wyoming

The company expects to begin building non-nuclear electricity generation infrastructure in 2025, TerraPower chairman Bill Gates said Monday.

www.utilitydive.com

What they have started building is a demonstration facility for the technology and not the actual plant. Hopefully the technology works. These facilities could be a game changer

 

[SAJ-99]

well, you should be happy that our new "leader" will fire them all shortly.

As for the costs of ANWR, he can and quite possibly will offer subsidies to get them drills a spinning.

The market will dictate the course of action on a lot of things. The entire oil forward curve is below the cost of production for anything in ANWR, and OPEC is sitting on a bunch of past production cuts they would like to eliminate. Rock meets hard place. I know what the promise was, but O&G companies have zero interest in lowering the prices on O&G right now. Any subsidies to them would need to be paid for and that doesn't align with the tax cuts he promised. It's like promising your spouse a remodel of the house and then asking your boss to cut your salary. The two things eventually collide in the bank account. This all happens fast. Looking at a debt ceiling that needs to go up and over $800B in treasury issuance in the first few months. And saying you are going to make $2T in spending cuts is way different than actually doing it. Every $1 the government spends is someone else's salary. The market is going to start making statements on a lot of this stuff.

 

[brocksw]

What they have started building is a demonstration facility for the technology and not the actual plant. Hopefully the technology works. These facilities could be a game changer

“Demonstration” is semantics, it’s the first of its kind, yes. But this a full scale nuclear plant project that will contribute power to the grid.

“Upon completion, the Natrium demonstration plant will be a fully functioning commercial power plant.”

TerraPower Begins Construction on Advanced Nuclear Project in Wyoming

TerraPower begins construction in Wyoming, marking a significant milestone for the Natrium reactor project, advancing clean energy innovation.

www.terrapower.com

 

[nrpate05]

With Trumps plan to unleash American energy, transferring public land to the states would mean the Fed government would miss out on all that O&G revenue. I highly doubt they would want that.

 

[Gellar]

"next gen" has been a pipe dream for 40 yrs or more. It shows no sign of changing despite all the hoopla that comes and goes over one reactor style or another, or even "cold fusion" that comes and goes with hemlines. I'm all for it as long as you keep the waste under your bed.


Actually, I am not all for it, regardless of the unavoidable waste factor. I cannot imagine a more bleak future for the planet than limitless energy in the hands of humans.

More energy is not the answer.

This is exactly the attitude that turns people off on the “green energy” movement when you have people advocating for alternative energy, less energy use, more efficiency but are speaking from the podium at the top of their private jet.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

“Demonstration” is semantics, it’s the first of its kind, yes. But this a full scale nuclear plant project that will contribute power to the grid.

“Upon completion, the Natrium demonstration plant will be a fully functioning commercial power plant.”

TerraPower Begins Construction on Advanced Nuclear Project in Wyoming

TerraPower begins construction in Wyoming, marking a significant milestone for the Natrium reactor project, advancing clean energy innovation.

www.terrapower.com

“Through the U.S. Department of Energy’s Advanced Reactor Demonstration Program (ARDP), a publicprivate partnership, this Natrium reactor demonstration project is intended to validate the design, construction and operational features of the Natrium technology.”

Don’t agree that it is simply semantics but hopefully it works like anticipated. We will see

 

[sapperJ24]

this is an interesting philosophical point.

i'm confident that i don't agree in the entirety of that thought. but i need to chew on it for a while.

i also, confidently, feel it's not that simple - collateral damage to our world and health from energy production is unavoidable. i personally think the focus should be on reducing that collateral damage rather than very far flung - albeit still important, to be sure - philosphicals regarding the potential evils of "limitless energy" that tangibly can't be answered.

Actually, I am not all for it, regardless of the unavoidable waste factor. I cannot imagine a more bleak future for the planet than limitless energy in the hands of humans.

More energy is not the answer.

Debated the value of wading in here, but here we go.

There is an argument that over time limitless energy will cap human population growth, decrease carbon emissions from current levels, and reduce environmental damage. The thought follows something like undeveloped nations and peoples use inefficient sources of energy (burning of wood) and have high reproductive rates for a variety of reasons. As developing countries stabilize, industrialize, and modernize, efficiency of energy production increases (coal, natural gas, hydro) and with this the quality of life improves. Populations have access to reliable energy and need to expend less time gathering fuel and tending fields due to improvements in capability. With development and infrastructure comes improved health care and a higher focus on education to address industrial issues and so reproductive rates go down.

I'm not saying this is my argument, just an argument in this philosophical exercise. Obviously, this is very much simplified here and much has to happen before this would play out.

 

[WyoCoalMiner]

“Demonstration” is semantics, it’s the first of its kind, yes. But this a full scale nuclear plant project that will contribute power to the grid.

“Upon completion, the Natrium demonstration plant will be a fully functioning commercial power plant.”

TerraPower Begins Construction on Advanced Nuclear Project in Wyoming

TerraPower begins construction in Wyoming, marking a significant milestone for the Natrium reactor project, advancing clean energy innovation.

www.terrapower.com

Similar projects have failed even after enormous amounts of money being spent.

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/business/article281716463.html

Excited to see it succeed but not ready to count my eggs

 

[VikingsGuy]

. . . I cannot imagine a more bleak future for the planet than limitless energy in the hands of humans.

How else are we going to welcome in our coming AI overlords?

 

[BrentD]

Else are we going to welcome in our coming AI overlords?

The Intergalactic Betting Commission is offering 10:1 odds against our species lasting til 2150...

 

[brocksw]

Similar projects have failed even after enormous amounts of money being spent.

https://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/business/article281716463.html

Excited to see it succeed but not ready to count my eggs

I would agree something could still go wrong, as with any large scale project. Again, this is the first SFR gen IV reactor that I’m aware.

But the ARDP is a funding arm made to support these types of leading edge projects. It’s basically a form of subsidy to help fund and participate, while also learning how these things will work and how to regulate them. I believe X-energy also received an ARDP award for a gen IV project in the US.

USNC is trying to build a gen IV “research reactor” at the university of Illinois.

I know China started up a gen IV HTGR reactor in 2023 and I believe Russia’s SMR gen IV is in construction, plus they already have a floating gen IV reactor in use.

Oak ridge Tennessee has also broken ground on a Gen IV reactor.

Sweden is developing plans for one as well.

Oklo out of Idaho is also hoping to begin construction on a gen IV by 2026.

The project in Idaho that you reference never even broke ground. It wasn’t slated to begin construction until 2026.

Again, “demonstration” is semantics…

 

[mtmiller]

With Trumps plan to unleash American energy, transferring public land to the states would mean the Fed government would miss out on all that O&G revenue. I highly doubt they would want that.

Split estate

 

[VikingsGuy]

The Intergalactic Betting Commission is offering 10:1 odds against our species lasting til 2150...

More seriously regarding your unlimited energy point, the following video is the best argument against human energy usage even if we have "clean" energy solutions. Essentially, "clean" energy from geothermal, carbon captured fossil fuels, and nuclear (fission or fusion) all drive a "waste heat" issue that will kill us all much sooner than even to most aggressive CO2 climate concerns.

So, we either tell 6 billion others they can't modernize while at the same time we pull back on our "lifestyles", or we really do go completely solar/wind/hydro (which I have never seen a legit plan for), or we use nuclear to power "planet cooling tech" that doesn't yet exist.

Sleep well gentleman.