ODFW's wolf debate has got Oregon residents howling

Michaelr

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http://www.registerguard.com/news/2003/01/23/5d.sp.stahlberg.0123.html

Mike Stahlberg: ODFW's wolf debate has got Oregon residents howling
By MIKE STAHLBERG
Columnist, The Register-Guard



WOLVES - AND an alleged wolf in sheep's clothing - have produced surprising public outcries lately.

First, as far as anyone can prove, there is not a single wild wolf in Oregon.

Yet nearly 2,000 people took the time to attend one of 15 "wolf management" meetings the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife conducted around the state recently. Another 1,400 people submitted written comments on what should be done about wolves.

The extent of the public response was amazing, when you consider that meetings on deer management typically attract a few dozen people - even though some 300,000 deer hunters in this state have a stake in the decisions being shaped by those meetings.

So why are more people concerned about the fate of animals we don't have than of one we do?

Everyone, of course, assumes that wolves will soon migrate into Oregon from Idaho, where they have been reintroduced by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Also, wolves are both mysterious and romanticized. On the other hand, the damage they can cause is more serious than Bambi's haystack-raiding and rosebush-munching. So it's understandable that people on both sides of the issue want to "get involved."

Oregonians generated so many comments and questions on wolves that the Oregon Fish and Wildlife Commission has postponed taking any formal action.

That was originally scheduled to occur in February. At its January meeting, however, the commission said more time is needed because of the abundant questions raised at the town hall meetings.

"We're not in a position to say, `Go this direction,' " commissioner Marla Rae of Salem said. "We still need more information. We have more work to do."

So the commission will receive a pair of staff reports but no public testimony at its Feb. 7 meeting. One report will provide "a thorough legal review of current laws related to wolf management." The other will summarize all the public comments received.

Craig Ely, who oversaw the "town hall" process, told the commission that the 1,600 statements and 400 questions submitted fell into "12 to 15 broad themes."

In the end, the key question will be: How much leeway will the federal government grant Oregon in dealing with a critter that is still protected by the Endangered Species Act?

THE ALLEGED WOLF in sheep's clothing label would apply to Bob McBride, the chief of police in the small south-coast town of Bandon.

McBride was charged in December with 10 misdemeanor violations of Oregon hunting laws. Among them are that he ran an unlicensed hunting-guide service and that he used trained hounds to hunt cougars, outlawed in Oregon since 1994.

The charges against McBride result from an undercover investigation in which two Oregon State Police officers posed as would-be poachers. Police affidavits filed in court say McBride took part in or freely discussed several wildlife violations.

After being booked into the Coos County Jail and then released, McBride told the Medford Mail Tribune newspaper that his only fault was his ignorance of wildlife laws.

"I had no clue I wasn't allowed to take those guys hunting," said McBride, who described himself to the Medford paper as being like "Andy of Mayberry," a reference to Andy Griffith's TV sitcom character.

He said he'll plead innocent at his Feb. 10 hearing.

The story of a police chief nailed in a poaching sting got even more interesting when townspeople reacted to the charges. Bandon's mayor said he and his fellow townspeople support McBride, their chief since 1998.

According to the Mail Tribune, Mayor Brian Vick criticized the state police for spending too much time and money on the effort to snare the chief.

"He clearly screwed up, in terms of not being aware of the game laws," Vick was quoted as saying. "(But) they've spent tens of thousands of dollars investigating this thing. It seems like tremendous overkill.

"I'm not going to call it an abuse of power. But that's as close as you can get to it. ... It's like they're not only trying to sully his reputation, but also go after his certification as a police officer."

Capt. Cynthia Kok, supervisor of the OSP's fish and wildlife special investigations unit, bristled at the mayor's criticism, the Medford paper reported.

Focusing on the cost of the investigation rather than on McBride's crimes misses the point, she said, that a police officer broke laws that he is responsible for following, just like everyone else that hunts or guides in Oregon.

The fact that the OSP spent "several thousand dollars" on the investigation "doesn't change the facts of what he did," Kok said. "Frankly ... I don't think you should put a price tag on what an investigation should or shouldn't cost."

Kok said McBride should not get "a free pass" simply because he's a well-liked cop in a small town.

In fact, she said, elected and appointed officials "are supposed to live their lives at a higher standard than the regular person on the street."

If convicted on all charges, McBride faces a fine of up to $5,000 and as much as nine years in jail.

Mike Stahlberg is the Register-Guard's outdoor writer. He can be reached at [email protected].
 
That thing about the cop being busted is sick.
Im sure he didnt understand the law (Yeah Right.)
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I say nail him.

I wonder what happen to that lone wolf that had wondered into Oregon a while back?

I lived in a really small town where the mayor got busted for poaching.

We used to hear all kinds of storys about him & his wife poaching and selling game meat.
 
Ask anyone on the eastern side of the state in the wildlife services and ask them if theres wolves here....hell yeah, they know theres a female that denned in the blues last yr and theres been several in the burnt river drainages around the durkee-herford area for a couple yrs now, I know for a fact as I cut there tracks snowmobiling in there last yr, not to mention the hush hush way there trying to approach things. 2 yrs ago one was ran over on I-84 south of baker,but no one hears about those things they try and cover up as much they can so it don;t send the public into a frenzy. Only reason I know of it is because of the work I have done for wildlife services and the things I get to hear that joe public don't. If theres no wolves in OR like they claim why would OR print a whole page in there hunting regulations on how to identify a wolve from a coyote....lol. Lots of game crosses the river from OR to ID and vica versa and wolves are no different. Freind of mine killed a lion in brownlee creek that had la grande F&G ear tags in its ear....also Ed Sweet that use to run Intermountian Outdoor Sports killed a lion in around High Valley that had a OR tracking collar on it....another freind of mine killed a turkey in halfway Or that had ID leg band on it. Its well known fact that game crosses back and forth across the river from ID to OR so why won't the wolves...wait a minute...they already have...LOL. MD4M the wolve you were refering to ended up in Prarie City OR anyone knows thats not just a hop skip and a jump away..lol Also 2 winters ago a guy killed a wolve mistaking it for a coyote in Battle Mnt NV, dna test showed it originated from the ID pack. I like the columnists quote "So why are more people concerned about the fate of animals we don't have than of one we do." Well........if we don't have wolves in OR why would OR F&G be conducting "Wolve Management Meetings"....OR F&G knows theres wolves here and they know also its only a matter of time before enough established breeding pairs come together before the publics going to know they exist without having them try and cover everything up right now.
 
thats funny
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My uncle who sits in a fire watch tower in oregon all summer long has seen wolves on several occasions.

I believe he has even taken some pictures
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I will ask him next time I see him, and if so post them.
 
Good Post Gato.
We were told we didnt have wolves in Idaho before the re-introduction
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But they sure had the posters up telling people what the tracks look like & how to tell the difference between a coyote and a wolf,oh and PLEASE REPORT ALL SIGHTINGS LOL
Then if someone reported one ,it was said they didnt know how to tell the difference.
 
There's a difference between a sighting and a confirmed sighting. Not saying the wolves weren't in places before it was documented, but Joe Public's sighting of a 'wolf' isn't substantial enough for such a politically hot topic like the wolf.
 
hhhmmmmmm, I wonder if my uncle would count??
he is after all joe gubbermint employee
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MD4M says, "We were told we didnt have wolves in Idaho before the re-introduction".

Nobody with any brains ever said any such thing! What an idiotic statement!

As re-introduction was first being discussed the official F&G Dept. position was that there were already wolves in Idaho (at least twenty five of them) and if they could increase naturally they should be allowed to and we didn't need wolves transplanted from elsewhere. This was a well known position by our F&G Dept. that was publicized many times. It was discussed in the Legislature and brought up just about anytime wolves were mentioned.

The fact that there were already wolves in Idaho was a very well known fact that nobody tried to deny.

Once again MD4M starts blathering about another thing she is completely ignorant of.
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Here's a report on wolves in Idaho in the 80s, long before re-introduction started!
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On four separate occasions within the last three years, wolves have either been captured in Idaho, or have been captured and marked elsewhere and moved into or through Idaho.10 There has been more than a doubling in the rate of wolves being detected in Idaho by trained biologists from a 1983-1984 time period to an early 1991 to early 1994 time period (about 2/year in the 1980's and over four/year in the 1990's). On three occasions in the 1990's pairs of wolves were detected, whereas all four detections in the 1980's involved lone wolves."

http://www.wildrockies.org/PredProj/wolf/wolfappealbrf/Wolf_appeal_brf14.html

Ya know, I hate wasting my time refuting the crap MD4M, Lost and mike post. How many times do I have to show they have no idea what they're talking about!?
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"In 1978, a hunter shot a gray wolf in the Boise National Forest near Warm Lake, on the edge of the Frank Church-River of No Return Wilderness. In the early 1980s, a wolf was photographed by a Idaho Fish and Game Department biologist conducting surveys of winter elk and deer herds while flying over the Clearwater National Forest to the north of the central Idaho wilderness.

Researchers Tim Kaminski and Jerome Hansen compiled 600 unconfirmed reports of wolves in Idaho between 1974 and 1983. Of
these, 238 were classified as probable. From these sightings, they estimated there might be from 17 to 40 wolves in Idaho."

http://www.idahonews.com/wolf/w10ida.htm

Once again the TRUTH is brought to you by Ithaca!
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 23:16: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
For what it's worth, my dad and I saw a pair of wolves chasing a coyote in the Jamez mountains of norhtern New Mexico in the late 70's. We reported it to the Fish and Game Dept. and were told we were wrong.... that there were no wolves in NM. A short while later, a buddy of mine saw wolves in the same general area we saw them. He was rebuffed by F&G too.

I'm not really saying anything about anything other than coverups are possible.
 
Mike- No disrespect to your uncle was intended. But, you have to admit there are many people who don't know the difference between a wolf and a coyote. I think I saw an endangered species this summer on the ranch were I work that has never been seen there. Would I (or you) take that as a confirmed presence of the animal? I wouldn't, as I have no proof, ie a photo or trapped animal, nor do I have enough experience with that species to determine that's what it was.
 
Another amazing Quote from Ithaca.
"Nobody with any brains ever said any such thing! What an idiotic statement! "
Ithaca ,have you been eating frightened
animals lately?Looks like you havent been following the advice on the link you gave all of us.
http://www.compassionatespirit.com/articles1.htm

Maybe a quick read through Keiths sight will make you fell better LOL

-- "As to Meat Eating," October, 1903

"Again, it is proven by experiment that certain negative states of consciousness peculiar to the animal accompany its flesh in all its journeys through the body of-man. All the upbuilding life goes out with the soul of the animal when it gives up its body, but the fears, the violence, the ignorance, the anger, the lust, and all that pertains to the error side of consciousness hovers around the dead cells."

Maybe going vegatarianrin would help your nasty disposition.
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-29-2003 09:16: Message edited by: Muledeer4me ]</font>
 
Maybe it would help my disposition if you'd quit posting so much misinformation!
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Got anything to say in your defense after you posted something so obviously false? You know, if I did something like that you and mike would be jumping up and down and yelling "Liar, liar, pants on fire!" like a couple of first graders.
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Ithaca telling at MD4M
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Here ithaca maybe this will make you all better.


when you going to figure out that we do this
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so we can laugh at you when you do this
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-29-2003 11:23: Message edited by: michaelr ]</font>
 
"Got anything to say in your defense after you posted something so obviously false?

Yes Ithaca I do have something to say.
Im sorry I thought you had eated frightened beef,its now become clear that what you have been munching on is that very scarce and elusive PECKERHEAD BIRD.
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I wonder who I should believe...Muledeer4me, who just runs off at the mouth...

Or, Ithaca who posts facts, documents, etc.

HMMMMM???? Its a real tough call.

May I suggest you grow up and admit when your wrong Muledeer4me?
 
Isn't it amazing that she gets caught in such a blatent falsehood and she and mike attack me for pointing out the truth!?
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You'd think they'd be greatfull for learning the true facts!
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I would be.

They prefer to pollute the Internet rivers of information with their bullshit.
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<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-29-2003 21:56: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
This thread actually started out very well, but then the pollution came back in and retarded its actual development...
I have personally seen wolf tracks in the Cascade mountain range during the 70's in areas I was told by game wardens, hadn't had wolves in the region for over fifty years at that time. I am not a master tracker by any means, but I do know that a track won't sit on top of a ridge for 50 years...LOL...Especially in that area.
 

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