NRA protesters

[Straight Arrow]

It's hard to believe you live in Montana, where so many citizens own and cherish guns and the second amendment.

I have lived in Montana, owned, and used firearms likely before you were born. I respect and support responsible firearms ownership, usage, and safe practices, as well as the 2nd Amendment. I abhor irresponsible, immature, and unsafe firearms usage as has become way too prevalent.

 

[sschultz]

I have lived in Montana, owned, and used firearms likely before you were born. I respect and support responsible firearms ownership, usage, and safe practices, as well as the 2nd Amendment. I abhor irresponsible, immature, and unsafe firearms usage as has become way too prevalent.

Then why do post some absolute bullshit.

 

[Tradewind]

on another note...74 people shot in Chicago this past week.
But no one protests that

 

[Idahoarcheryhunter]

on another note...74 people shot in Chicago this past week.
But no one protests that

Obama did a great job turning around Chicago I see.

 

[shootbrownelk]

I have lived in Montana, owned, and used firearms likely before you were born. I respect and support responsible firearms ownership, usage, and safe practices, as well as the 2nd Amendment. I abhor irresponsible, immature, and unsafe firearms usage as has become way too prevalent.

Unless you were born over 74 years ago, I sure doubt your first sentence.

 

[Huntkook]

The 2nd amendment is not about hunting. The issues today are because of society (decay) changing and lack of enforcement of current laws. Every life lost due to other than natural circumstances is a tragedy. This includes firearms related death's. alcohol related death's. drug related death's and all others. Do we ban alcohol again, that didn't work last time. Or should we make it where if you drink you cannot own or operate a vehicle. Would that prevent all DUI death's. We can go on and on about gun control but until society values life and respect of all folks nothing will work.

Dan

You hit the nail on the head. There's a lack of morality and principles in society today and until that changes the trend will continue . Our forefathers were so insightful that the amendments still work today. Changing anything about the 2nd amendment will not curb the violence that goes on today. Just for example a young man took a knife to school a slashed and stabbed a bunch of kids. No gun involved. That was in the Pittsburgh area. You can't blame the guns , society has to change .

 

[brownbear932008]

on another note...74 people shot in Chicago this past week.
But no one protests that

Including one young ATF agent shot in the face now in critical condition Friday on an operation. Keep him in your thoughts and prayers.
The gun control debate will be never ending because neither side is willing or open to good suggestions or changes and part of this is the fear the NRA has placed in people's minds that every gun is going to be taken from your home by law enforcement some day which is complete bull crap.
There needs to be some change private sales should be gone period. It just opens the door for criminal organizations as a way to obtain and use firearms to commit crimes as the one above.

 

[DRAFTSTUD]

Including one young ATF agent shot in the face now in critical condition Friday on an operation. Keep him in your thoughts and prayers.
The gun control debate will be never ending because neither side is willing or open to good suggestions or changes and part of this is the fear the NRA has placed in people's minds that every gun is going to be taken from your home by law enforcement some day which is complete bull crap.
There needs to be some change private sales should be gone period. It just opens the door for criminal organizations as a way to obtain and use firearms to commit crimes as the one above.

So, I cannot pass my guns onto my son and daughters? John

 

[Straight Arrow]

Unless you were born over 74 years ago, I sure doubt your first sentence.

Shootbrownelk, 'born in 1944 but not quite to your "doubtful" math point yet. I'm not trying to say I know any more than others or that my opinion is any more valid, just that I am a lifelong hunter in Montana, a thirty year military veteran, supporter of the 2nd Amendment, and also cognizant of the complexity of this issue and the surrounding flack. Disrespectful flack such as sschulz's "Then why do(sic) post some absolute bullshit" question without a question mark. There are way too many folks on both sides of this issue who are overly emotional, irrational, and just plain too disrespectful to solve anything ... hence complex turmoil is perpetuated.

 

[TheJason]

Then why do post some absolute bullshit.

Introspective questioning?

 

[CUElk]

The gun control advocates do wish to eliminate honest hard working Americans from owning firearms. They are trying to do it piece by piece. They are going after everyone and not targeting the criminal crowd. Now explain to me how one method of inflicting injury and death to a person is accepted and another is not. I would ask everyone to step back and try to use common sense to address the problem. It amazes me how one group can without blinking an eye want to eliminate the 2nd amendment but find it terrible if one should suggest eliminating the right of a mentally unstable person to keep their condition from the FBI's NICS program. That's doesn't fit their agenda. Or how about going after the drunk drivers that destroy so many lives and family's.
All I hear about is how the anti gun crowd want to take all of our rights regarding the 2nd amendment but fail to say how they are going to get the criminals to give up their firearms. When is the anti gun crowd going to push for the full application of our current gun laws. You don't hear anything about that. I spent nearly 28 years as a Deputy Sheriff in Cascade County, Mt. We had felons in possession of firearms, sawed off shot guns and guns used in commission of crime. In many cases ATF refused to take the cases to DOJ for prosecution. The laws were in place but again the system failed and no one give a shit.
If you feel the 2nd Amendment is out dated that's your right. Turn in all your firearms and become a bow hunter. Lead by example.
Folks firearms are not the problem. The problem is the way society is leading our country down the toilet. No one is responsible for their actions and it's someone else's fault they commit crimes. No one is held accountable for their actions, this needs to change.

Ok rant is over but you get the idea.

Dan

well said my friend. also, as huntkook said, we appear to be turning into a Godless nation.

 

[brownbear932008]

So, I cannot pass my guns onto my son and daughters? John

Not without a small amount of paperwork and 10 minutes of precious time IMO. Nobody ever said nobody couldn't pass a family treasure down the line as a gift. Also all of this could be written into the verbage of the law. But in doing that you just created another loop hole granted much smaller than the one we have now. The gun laws on the books are a joke. I've seen multiple one's handed down to children who where felons.
My reasoning is it makes zero sense to me that a felon can't go to say Cableas and purchase a pistol because of a background check and yet he can run down the road one mile and skip this whole process by stopping at the local flea market and getting anything he wants. If we continue down this road then shouldn't we just get rid of background checks all together because it only slows you or I down honestly? Will criminals still obtain guns? YES in B&E and other such crimes they will but it won't be quite as easy for them.

 

[1_pointer]

Not without a small amount of paperwork and 10 minutes of precious time IMO. Nobody ever said nobody couldn't pass a family treasure down the line as a gift. Also all of this could be written into the verbage of the law. But in doing that you just created another loop hole granted much smaller than the one we have now. The gun laws on the books are a joke. I've seen multiple one's handed down to children who where felons.
My reasoning is it makes zero sense to me that a felon can't go to say Cableas and purchase a pistol because of a background check and yet he can run down the road one mile and skip this whole process by stopping at the local flea market and getting anything he wants. If we continue down this road then shouldn't we just get rid of background checks all together because it only slows you or I down honestly? Will criminals still obtain guns? YES in B&E and other such crimes they will but it won't be quite as easy for them.

Would you propose the same for a private sale? I am unaware of anything that can be legally purchased not to be sold legally in a private transaction.

 

[scubohuntr]

My reasoning is it makes zero sense to me that a felon can't go to say Cableas and purchase a pistol because of a background check and yet he can run down the road one mile and skip this whole process by stopping at the local flea market and getting anything he wants.

Not without committing a felony. That's the whole point. IT IS ALREADY ILLEGAL FOR FELONS TO POSSESS FIREARMS. NO MATTER HOW THEY GOT THEM. It's also already illegal to pass your guns down to your kids if you know they are legally barred from owning them. If the courts would enforce the laws already on the books, there would be no need for more.

 

[sschultz]

Not without a small amount of paperwork and 10 minutes of precious time IMO. Nobody ever said nobody couldn't pass a family treasure down the line as a gift. Also all of this could be written into the verbage of the law. But in doing that you just created another loop hole granted much smaller than the one we have now. The gun laws on the books are a joke. I've seen multiple one's handed down to children who where felons.
My reasoning is it makes zero sense to me that a felon can't go to say Cableas and purchase a pistol because of a background check and yet he can run down the road one mile and skip this whole process by stopping at the local flea market and getting anything he wants. If we continue down this road then shouldn't we just get rid of background checks all together because it only slows you or I down honestly? Will criminals still obtain guns? YES in B&E and other such crimes they will but it won't be quite as easy for them.

And a $25 to $50 transfer fee and a possible wait because the NCIC check was delayed.

 

[Dan O]

Not without a small amount of paperwork and 10 minutes of precious time IMO. Nobody ever said nobody couldn't pass a family treasure down the line as a gift. Also all of this could be written into the verbage of the law. But in doing that you just created another loop hole granted much smaller than the one we have now. The gun laws on the books are a joke. I've seen multiple one's handed down to children who where felons.
My reasoning is it makes zero sense to me that a felon can't go to say Cableas and purchase a pistol because of a background check and yet he can run down the road one mile and skip this whole process by stopping at the local flea market and getting anything he wants. If we continue down this road then shouldn't we just get rid of background checks all together because it only slows you or I down honestly? Will criminals still obtain guns? YES in B&E and other such crimes they will but it won't be quite as easy for them.

Your explanation reinforces my position. Criminals do not give a hoot about the law. It is a Federal crime for felons to possess firearms. How would a new law make it anymore illegal? I agree if a person sells, gives or barters a firearm to a known felon they should be held accountable. The fact you stated you have seen multiple one's (firearms?) handed down to children who were felons. How did you handle that? Did you notify local law enforcement or the fed's or just not get involved? This reinforces my opinion that we need the current laws enforced PERIOD!!! Do not trample our constitutional rights because bad people do bad things.
HOLD THE CRIMINAL RESPONSABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!! Do not hold me accountable for their actions. Increase the penalty if needed for felon in possession or for using a firearm in commission of a crime. And step up and report violations if you see them.

Dan

 

[brownbear932008]

Would you propose the same for a private sale? I am unaware of anything that can be legally purchased not to be sold legally in a private transaction.

1pointer yes that is my opinion but it doesn't count much. I know what your saying but it happens everyday on gunbroker already the FFL is just a go between making money because most of the transactions are across state lines. I just can't understand the huge loop holes in gun legislation. There is room for a lot of good changes. But saying that we will never see any because anything Washington touches turns into a complete disaster.
Our biggest challenge with firearms IMO is keeping them out of mentally unstable subjects hands but gee how can that be tackled is the million dollar question?

 

[brownbear932008]

Your explanation reinforces my position. Criminals do not give a hoot about the law. It is a Federal crime for felons to possess firearms. How would a new law make it anymore illegal? I agree if a person sells, gives or barters a firearm to a known felon they should be held accountable. The fact you stated you have seen multiple one's (firearms?) handed down to children who were felons. How did you handle that? Did you notify local law enforcement or the fed's or just not get involved? This reinforces my opinion that we need the current laws enforced PERIOD!!! Do not trample our constitutional rights because bad people do bad things.
HOLD THE CRIMINAL RESPONSABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS!! Do not hold me accountable for their actions. Increase the penalty if needed for felon in possession or for using a firearm in commission of a crime. And step up and report violations if you see them.

Dan

Dan for the record your post is one of the most sensible post on this thread at this point. I agree 110% that criminals should be held responsible and get hammered if caught with a firearm after a felony conviction. I too have been in LEO positions for over 23 years. A big problem with your example about feds not picking up gun cases is the USAO not picking up the prosecution half the time. All a fed LEO can do is put the case together and submit it for prosecution. If it's never picked up it's dead in the water happens all the time for multiple reasons. A lot of it boils down to USA staff shortages from what I've seen.
It's a very complex issue as I've stated before after the shooting in FL and we had that great thread on here. Anyone knows who has been a LEO for any amount of time that criminal prosecution is a joke most of the time. Hope that answers your question about how I've seen these cases.

 

[Straight Arrow]

Dan and brownbear, those are great points. There are many firearms regulations and laws already. If they were strictly enforced, the issue would be much less contentious.

 

[Dan O]

Dan for the record your post is one of the most sensible post on this thread at this point. I agree 110% that criminals should be held responsible and get hammered if caught with a firearm after a felony conviction. I too have been in LEO positions for over 23 years. A big problem with your example about feds not picking up gun cases is the USAO not picking up the prosecution half the time. All a fed LEO can do is put the case together and submit it for prosecution. If it's never picked up it's dead in the water happens all the time for multiple reasons. A lot of it boils down to USA staff shortages from what I've seen.
It's a very complex issue as I've stated before after the shooting in FL and we had that great thread on here. Anyone knows who has been a LEO for any amount of time that criminal prosecution is a joke most of the time. Hope that answers your question about how I've seen these cases.

I agree that the USAO will not pursue a case in many circumstances and that is very frustrating for the investigating officer. This is not limited to the federal system but is found in every level. I will give an example; the CCSO had attempted to get 9 gun cases prosecuted under the federal law. This was in the early 2000's. When Bush 43 got into office one of his priority's was to hold people accountable in gun crimes. The same federal officers that before would not touch those suddenly needed them. All there was to do was present them to the USAO and they were prosecuted. Then 9-11-01 happened and again the priority level dropped.
Again I would submit that new laws will only be felt by the very citizens they were supposed to help while the criminal's will just carry on there ways. Our constitution is more important and should not be compromised in any way shape or form. When I took my oath it stated "I would protect and defend the constitution of the United States against enemy's both foreign and domestic." This is how I view the attack's on the 2nd Amendment. Some will disagree with this but that is another right they have under the same constitution, just a different Amendment.

Dan