Nosler Balistic tip report

[sdgunslinger]

1 pointer

Don't be fooled into believing that bullet testing by shooting into wet magazines , buckets full of water , jello and any other fool thing is the same as shootng them into flesh and bone...... such tests are fun and games and can be quite interesting , but just as the proof of the pudding is in the eating , the proof of a hunting bullet is actually shooting the bullets into the intended game and seeing real world results......while reports have it those .338 ballistic tips are a pretty fair bullet , I would still put my money on a 210 gr partition . They have a proven track record over a long , long time .......

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-29-2002 08:39: Message edited by: sdgunslinger ]</font>

 

[BuzzH]

1-pointer, while I'll admit right out to having no experience with the 210 noslers out of the 338, I did run through about 200 or so of the 200 grain ballistic tips. From what I found, I would find it amazing, if not downright impossible for the 200 grain ballistic tip to out-penetrate the 210 partition. Anyway, I some how came up with a very stupid idea that I needed to shoot 200 grainers out of the 338, and picked the nosler ballistic tips. I'll also be honest and tell you they shot well, really well.

Also, for the record, I think its a waste of the 338 to shoot bullets that light. I feel if you want to shoot 200 grain bullets do it out of a 30 caliber magnum.

Anyway, on the performance, or lack of performance of the 200 grain ballistic tip. I intended to shoot ONLY a dall sheep with them, and I did. That bullet made an absolute mess out of that dall ram, bloodshot the shit out of the heart lung/shoulder area. I suspect the damage would have been similar to what Greenhorn described above, not pleasant.

Since I really dont like loading that much and had 50 or so ballistic tips loaded up, I continued to hunt with them until I used them up. In that span I killed 2 elk, a shiras moose, and several deer with them. The two elk were a runaway, I killed a 5 point after having shot him 3 times broadside, only one of the 3 shots exited, and I suspect all that was left of that bullet was the base, because the hole was real small. There was no blood trail to speak of and it was a pain in the ass to follow.

The moose I took with a shot to the spine right near the hump on the shoulder. The bullet flew apart on the spine and I found ONLY the jacket lodged in the spine.

The other elk, a mature cow, I shot right behind the shoulder taking one rib on the entrance side and found the bullet just under the hide on the off side. That elk traveled 100 yards in the snow leaving a scant blood trail, that would have been a bastard to follow in dry weather.

The deer I killed with those bullets performed pretty good, with the exception of lots more bloodshot. Honestly, I'd much rather shoot deer sized critters with a 30/06 and 180 partitions. They perform better, in my opinion, and do less damage than the 338 200 grain ballistic tip.

Based on those results I came to the conclusion that I was getting no better than 30/06 results out of my 338 with the 200 grain ballistic tip. The previous half dozen elk, a large black bear, and many deer, were all taken with the 250 grain partition, and in all but one case got complete broadside pass throughs. The one exception was a raking shot on a hard quartering elk. That 250 busted seven ribs on the on-side, traveled foreward through the body, busted the off shoulder and was lodged in the front of the neck on the off side. I would guess traveling through about 40 inches of elk bone, blood and flesh. Those damn ballistic tips would not have had a prayer on that shot, thats a given.

I feel to get the maximum results out of a 338 you have to shoot the 250's. The 200's just dont perform and in my opinion are just about totally useless, unless you just want to make the 338 an OK deer rifle.

I'll never shoot anything but 250's ever again, I'm not into struggling with poor bullets.

 

[1_pointer]

Thanks for the real world performance of the bullets. I am currently loading them now for they do shoot very good and planned on using them on deer and maybe a cow elk this fall. However, I am seriously contemplating the Barnes XLC. Again, thanks for relating your real-world experience of these bullets I appreciate it. I'm sorry if I sounded like a smart arse before, that was not my intention.

 

[WDSWIFT]

Well, I guess the best words I've read on this thread are "shot placement".
I don't think that Buzz's philosophy on using 200gr class bullets on deer is BS, it is just that it works for him and so be it.

For the last 5 years I've hunted a mountain over from a fellow from Pittsburg. He uses a 300 Winny Mag and 200+ grain bullets for whitetail deer. I use either a 243 with 85gr Seirra HPBT, or my 30-06 with 125gr or 150gr NBTs. Each year he gets a couple and each year I get a couple. He enjoys blood trailing them, and in fact he has asked me to join in the fun a couple of times when the blood trail got tough to follow due to available light or a light rain falling. Not once have they ran closer to his camp, truck or 4 wheeler.

Yep Buzz, you're right, I've been lucky so far I guess, I've never had to blood trail a one that I've shot, and I've never had to shoot one more than once in just over 30 years of deer & caribou hunting.

So this year, God willing, I'll be on my mountain and ole Jerry will be over on his mountain, and we'll both be HUNTERS with our own philosophies. Then when evening comes and we're sharing stories over a beer, his always makes the best story....'bout how he blood trailed this 8 pointer up over the top of the mountain and through the gully on the other side, then found it in a patch of laurels all bled out. When I tell my story it's usually pretty boring.... the deer walked into gun range, I waited for my shot, and it fell on the spot. Sometimes there is an exit wound, sometimes not.

I apologize for the long post, but bottom line, long as a guy is sucessful, who T/F am I to call his philosophy for success Bull $shit?? WD

 

[danr55]

Wayne, That's about the best I've heard it put. I don't care what Murph says, you've got class....

 

[WDSWIFT]

Thank you Dan, I appreciate the compliment.

WD

 

[BuzzH]

wdswift, all I can say is you must be one amazing guy. Please give me the recipe that you use (rifle, bullet, etc) that has dropped all the deer and tundra cows you've shot in the last 30 years "in their tracks".

Christ, myself, my buddies, and a vast majority of the hunting community (your buddy included), are doing something wrong.

I mean, I havent hunted for 30 years, only 22, but in that time, while not trying to one up you, I've taken over 80 deer/antelope sized critters, several black bears, a bull moose, 22 elk, mountain goat, bighorn sheep, mountain lion, and dall sheep. I've also seen a pretty fair number of critters shot by my buddies. With the exception of one whitetail buck, I've never seen an animal drop in its tracks unless the spine or brain is hit.

I've also used a fair number of calibers (22-250, 243, 6mm, 25/06, 30/06, 32-40, 300 win mag., and 338, and used a pretty good assortment of bullets (nosler BT's, Part., and solid base, speer grandslams, speer boat tails, sierra, hornady, winchester power points, federal hi-shok, rem. core locs, and barnes (old style), in many weights from 50-275 grains. I've seen several more combos used by friends and family.

Apparently the critters I've shot, and seen shot, have not read the "drop in its tracks, energy stay in the critter theory", or else all I've shot is tough SOB's.

I dont believe I have a closed mind, and I've used a lot of different calibers and bullets. But, I just cant believe any rifle or any bullet is capable of dropping every big-game animal in its tracks, every time. I have to really start questioning such theories and statements and I'm really tempted to call it full on bullshit. As much as I like the easter bunny, santa claus, and the "stay in the animal use all the energy theory", I just dont believe in any of them.

One more silly question, what bullet did you use to "drop all my whitetail and tundra cows in their tracks" with 30 years ago? Most of the "hammer of thor" brands you mentioned werent around yet.

 

[Nodak Hunter]

Well, when I shoot at a deer, I aim for the "off shoulder". That means I visualize where the shoulder I can't see is, and try to shoot the animal so the bullet enters the body at an angle to exit through the off shoulder (except on frontal shots, obviously).

When I am successful at doing this, and the bullet has passed through the deer's vitals and broken the off shoulder, it literally drops in it's tracks. A few times they've tried to get back up, but generally they go no more than a step or two before they go down again for good.

I've shot about ten deer this way, with cartridges ranging from a .30-30 with 150 gr Speers at 50 yards to a .338 Win Mag with 225 grain Spire Points at 280 yards. I try to shoot all deer this way, but sometimes that just isn't possible, due to the angle presented.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 04-29-2002 23:38: Message edited by: Nodak Hunter ]</font>

 

[danr55]

Buzz, Practice at the rifle range can correct an entire range of issues with shot placement and it can also improve your luck. (Don't get riled, that's a joke!!) My only issue with any of this is the concern for unrecovered animals.

I've shot critters with both Ballistic Tips and Partitions. I've seen some amazing things happen with both. I've seen bull Elk drop like they were poll axed from a shot that should have just wounded them and I've seen them walk away from a shot that blew up thier heart. Saw a cow that was shot with a partition, in a quartering away attitude, that was whipped around so violently that the bullet entered, broke two ribs, passed thru both lungs and hit the off side shoulder blade then came back and took out her heart and exited inside the near side shoulder. She ran for about 15 yards then crashed into a tree and slid down hill in the leaves for another 40 yards. The point being, all of these animals were recovered. The failure to penetrate the entire body cavity not withstanding, all of the animals died.

What bullet one chooses is not sufficient criteria for arguement. Choose the one that works for you. That's why not everyone drives a Dodge Truck. Not everyone shoots a Dumolin Mauser, and not everyone eats at Burger King. It's about choices. There are enough well constructed bullets and good bullet makers that breaking into the business is tough if not impossible. Anyone that continues to fail in the field will not last long.

So choose the bullet that meets your standard and enjoy. Arizona draws or lack of not withstanding.

 

[Calif. Hunter]

I cannot claim to have harvested as many critters as you guys, other than a couple dozen hogs, a few deer, and a couple of miscellaneous animals. I also use the "off shoulder" as an aiming point whenever I can, like Nodak Hunter. It works well, and most animals I have used it on either dropped on the spot or walked only two steps before falling. If that angle is not possible, then I take the best shot available whether it be a shoulder shot, a neck shot or whatever.

I also loved the Nosler solid base when it was available.

 

[MLM]

I can add my say now! To put this dog to rest on my part. This last year bou hunting WD and I tagged out. But we both had bear tags left so we could hunt! I was worn out and begged off the hunt offered by the guides. They only ask 3 of us. Me, WD and one other hunter. They had to get the camp members meat for the season. Cow or Bull was legal for them, they only wanted head shots! Guess who took all they needed and I believe one or two was a running head shot on a bou! Trust me men, WD is a rifleman, he works out every little problem and sorts out any thing that can go wrong before it does! We all know , we will hunt with only certain people, WD is one of about only 5 I will hunt with! And I have been at this over 30 years also! He is a friend , but I have told GOOD friends to get away from me and never let there feet touch my land again! I am that way, Life is to short to add problem to your life!
Unless I was going to hunt Large game oversea's , I see no use for any bullets here in the lower 48 but Noslers BT and Hornady SST or interlocks. Game Kings are another good choice! But as for me and the over 3 to 5000 rounds a year I shoot, I know what works and does not! I live near a stream so I can take the heat! But I also would like to add, we all get set in our ways. Some of us try to keep learning and not turn a deaf ear to new things! The world keeps on turning and new things come out every day, not all of them good, but that is what this board is for , to exchange ideas!
Mike Murphy

 

[WDSWIFT]

Buzz, Nawww, I'm not an amazing guy, I'm not the best shot in the world, and I DON'T profess to have all the answers.

I will give you 2 of my recipes that you asked for.

#1) On never having to use more than one shot in 30 years of deer hunting...that one is easily explained and very evident.... L-U-C-K. I wouldn't try to BS anyone into thinking there is a secret to it, especially someone such as yourself who has had infinately more experience on much larger game animals than I have. I realize every year that I take a shot at a deer that this could be the one that breaks the string of luck that I've had.

#2) The rifle/bullet combinations I've used, I started out with a 30-06 using 125gr Win PTSP, then went to 130gr Hornady Spire points. Then in the late 70's I began using my 243 with Sierra 85gr HPBT's, and went back and forth between the '06 and the 243 in the 80's and 90's until in the mid 90's I began using the 125 & 150gr NBT's in the '06, and last year began flirting with using the Hornady SST's in the '06.

As you can see Buzz, there is no voodoo or magic to it.... Just dumb luck I guess.
I'll be in Wyoming this summer, do you have a spare elk steak or roast we could throw on the grill?? I'll bring the beer or soda.
Happy hunting to ya, and continued good luck. I am in envy of any hunter that has the wide open spaces and variety of big game animals that you all have out there.

WD

 

[Tom]

I was all excited about the hot Hornady Light Magnums for my 30-06 a few years ago when they came out. I've had several animals where they don't exit and there's then no blood trail. They didn't have the BTSP last year and apparently switched to the ballistic tip. I have to get rid of it somehow now I think. I lost a hog last weekend because of no blood trail probably. We found a piece of meat and a piece of bone, but very little blood and no hog. It was thick south Texas brush country so he could have been hidden near where the 4 of us looked and we didn't see him. I'm thinking to take the 338 next time. It will do better at just knocking them down where they stand than the 30-06. The fat on hogs just closes up around a hole a lot anyway. I need to knock them down where they stand if I can.

 

[snuffy1]

I've been loading the NBT's since they first came out. I also load all my families deer hunting shells, until recently all with the NBT. The list; 2 30-06's, 1 a springfield 03-A3, the other a herters u-9
2, .280 rems, 1 a 7400, and my Ruger M77.
My son's 7-08 Browning
A .308 win. M 100 win.
A Mini 30 Ruger

In just about every case, in every rifle, I've seen or heard of failure to penetrate, lots of unusable blood shot meat, fragments of bullet lead and jacket when the bullet hit bone.

The only 2 exceptions to the above rule was my Ruger .280, and the mini-30. the .280 has a very long throat, making it incapable of the velocity it should be able to obtain. This meant I could only get about 2600 fps with a 140 NBT. In most .280's you can get close to 3000 fps. The mini-30 was a 125 NBT at around 2450, it took a nubbin buck at about 100 yds., my son's first deer. He hit him high in the back, through the loins. It performed exactly like it should, dropped in his tracks.

Of the ten deer this .280 rifle has taken, All were complete pass throughs, most ran at least 50 yds, there were no fragmented bullets and they performed like they're supposed to. If loaded down to lower velocities, they work like they should.

I used 165 grainers in the 2 30-06 rifles. In both there have been fragmentation, failure to penetrate and almost lost one deer because of no blood trail. My Nephew who owns the U-9 shot a buck with it last year, he gave it to me. I have been running into lead and jacket fragments in the hamburger since.

The .308, out of 3 deer shot, only one failure to penetrate with a spine hit at close range. Those were the 150 gr NBT.

The 7-08 was a big buck at 35 feet, frontal hit in the brisket, bullet stopped in the right shoulder. Anchored him on the spot! Never recovered ANY large pieces of that bullet.

Now I am switching over to Hornady SST's. The kid shot a doe on the dead run in the 2000 "T" zone season with the 139 SST in his 7-08. Piled up right now! The heart and right lung were a red pulp, the bullet continued back to nick the liver to exit behind the last rib. Exit hole looked the same as the entrance.

 

[John]

Man! This thing sure took off sense I last posted. Did not figure I needed to add anything more as BuzzH had just about everything covered. (I'm not convenced on the "theory" either.) Do have something to pass on to Snuffy1 though. First I gotta say I'm sorry about your .280 only getting 2600 with a 140gr. Mine chronographed 3050 with 139gr. Hornady SST's last fall. I took a Mule Deer buck and a Cow Elk with that load. Those bullets proformed great for me. I am looking forward to loading more of them as soon as I can get my hands on other calibers and weights. Want to try some in 154gr. 7mm, 100gr. 6mm, and what ever they make in .25 caliber (are they making 117gr. or 120gr?)And best of all, they don't hit me in the wallet as hard as Nosler. John

 

[1_pointer]

John, they are making a 117gr. .257 cal SST.