Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[MT Bound]

Tag: $700...ish (for deer combo)
Hunt: $6500 (on average)
Motel room the night prior to arriving in camp: $120
Tip for guide: $750
Tip for cook: $200
Dinner before arriving at camp: $50
Gifts for wife at local gift shop: $100
Meal after leaving camp and prior to flying out: $50
Motel room the night prior to leaving for home: $120

Adds up quickly, and........all staying in Montana. Just saying.

"....gifts for wife at local gift shop: $100"

you cheap SOB, you better take Randy's advice and Pony-up!!

JK, I couldn't help myself, all in good fun man!

 

[Big Shooter]

"....gifts for wife at local gift shop: $100"

you cheap SOB, you better take Randy's advice and Pony-up!!

JK, I couldn't help myself, all in good fun man!

!! What can I say......I’m tighter than two coats of paint! My wife is getting used to it though! That made me laugh!! All good.

 

[The Hedgehog]

If I were an outfitter, I'd surely want to be able to guarantee my prospects that they'd get a license. But it just ain't right that they should be able to get in front of the line, ahead of people that are hunters, that want to hunt, and have the option to choose if they want to hire help or not.

Regardless of how much money who pays, who gets it, and where everybody does their shopping.. it ain't right.

 

[brockel]

"....gifts for wife at local gift shop: $100"

you cheap SOB, you better take Randy's advice and Pony-up!!

JK, I couldn't help myself, all in good fun man!

Hope my wife doesn’t read this forum

 

[tjones]

Tag: $700...ish (for deer combo)
Hunt: $6500 (on average)
Motel room the night prior to arriving in camp: $120
Tip for guide: $750
Tip for cook: $200
Dinner before arriving at camp: $50
Gifts for wife at local gift shop: $100
Meal after leaving camp and prior to flying out: $50
Motel room the night prior to leaving for home: $120
Taxidermist: $700
Meat processing: $150

Adds up quickly, and........all staying in Montana. Just saying.

They all kill something worth mounting?

 

[antlerradar]

I booked MT archery elk hunt with an outfitter in 2022. The outfitter is based in WY. I will be staying with outfitter in WY. I doubt the outfitter is going to spend all his income in MT for the half dozen tags or so he runs in MT.

I'm foregoing MT applications this year so I can have 2 PP and another bonus point going into next years draw. I should have about 90% odds of drawing the permit barring any drastic changes to regs/applicants. Doesn't seem all that complicated to plan this sort of thing and it's for a LE Permit.

Now that i'm spouting off.. Watch me draw a general tag but miss on the permit draw so I can wait two more years to even enter the permit drawing again.

Plenty outfitters that operate in both WY and MT along the border. Probably most of them buy their supplies in Billings to avoid sales tax.
Now when it comes to income tax those WY hunters give big tips and eat like church mice, The exact opposite of the guys hunting Montana.

 

[Eric Albus]

They all kill something worth mounting?

I think it's a much bigger crapshoot than any one wants to acknowledge. I believe one of Eric's guides doesn't even live in MT. I'm sure there are other guides that don't live in MT either but just come for the fall for a couple hunts, so how can their financial impact be better than a NR who buys a cabin in MT and lives there a couple months out of the year?

The economic impact taking priority over everything else is a terrible notion, It's regretful to think we can boil down our heritage and traditions, our wild places and wild life to nothing more than a dollar figure and who gets what cut of it...but at this point it seems like it's the only argument MOGA has....or at least the only one they think they can win.

I am not trying to “win” anything. Merely attempting to enlighten those who choose to listen. I will not argue that it is sad to see everything boiled down to economic impacts, but it’s what makes the world go round.

Where did I ever state that a guide has any financial impact???

I said the impact of outfitted NR has a greater impact than the guys I know who have bought houses and “ranches” in my area.

 

[Big Shooter]

Hope my wife doesn’t read this forum

Oh God! You and me both!

 

[Big Shooter]

They all kill something worth mounting?

They all kill something worth mounting?

I guess that’s up to them and not you.......but most of them feel they do. I guess you won’t be the judge on that.

 

[tjones]

Tag: $700...ish (for deer combo)
Hunt: $6500 (on average)
Motel room the night prior to arriving in camp: $120
Tip for guide: $750
Tip for cook: $200
Dinner before arriving at camp: $50
Gifts for wife at local gift shop: $100
Meal after leaving camp and prior to flying out: $50
Motel room the night prior to leaving for home: $120
Taxidermist: $700
Meat processing: $150

Adds up quickly, and........all staying in Montana. Just saying.

Dude you included taxidermist bills in what you claim outfitter clients spend. You make it sound like they all leave Montana with a taxidermist bill. Your words not mine.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I am not trying to “win” anything. Merely attempting to enlighten those who choose to listen. I will not argue that it is sad to see everything boiled down to economic impacts, but it’s what makes the world go round.

Where did I ever state that a guide has any financial impact???

I said the impact of outfitted NR has a greater impact than the guys I know who have bought houses and “ranches” in my area.

Not sure the guys holding the note on those houses & ranches would agree. $100/month mortgage is nothing to sneeze at in terms of local economic input.

 

[Big Fin]

I will not argue that it is sad to see everything boiled down to economic impacts, but it’s what makes the world go round.

I am glad you wrote that, Eric. I do believe when you take your outfitter hat off, you look at these things similar to most the rest of us.

Unfortunately, the rationale we read here and that were heard in the testimony on the bill, was full on economics. In doing so it was stated many times how outfitted hunters are far more valuable than the DIY hunter. It has been presented/defended/promoted as a relative economic value discussion of which hunters are worth more, even though you state here that it is sad to see it get boiled down to that.

With that statement, I agree completely. And that is why I don't like this bill, either as originally introduced or even as amended.

 

[BT_NVhunter]

Montana Big Game combo deer elk license $1,052 + $448 snacks, beer & other adult beverages + $6,000 outfitter fee + $500 tip to guide for raghorn and forkhorn success = $8,000.

See maybe that’s the problem. Guiding is a service industry meaning competition is what controls the price. Outside of the essentials to run. Maybe create a little more competition between you and the guy next to you. Try this bring your price down even just $300 and provide the same if not better quality hunt. You probably wouldn’t have a problem getting people to book with you. In turn you don’t have to force a nonresident who wants a reasonable chance at hunting Montana to have to book an outfitter. That’s like a contractor saying oh well I do shotty work and no one wants me to build their home, you know what I’ll do I’ll have the state require anyone who moves here a certain percentage have to call me whether they want to or not! Doesn’t make sense there and it doesn’t make sense in your case either. You not having full books for the season sounds like an internal problem not the public’s.

 

[Big Shooter]

See maybe that’s the problem. Guiding is a service industry meaning competition is what controls the price. Outside of the essentials to run. Maybe create a little more competition between you and the guy next to you. Try this bring your price down even just $300 and provide the same if not better quality hunt. You probably wouldn’t have a problem getting people to book with you. In turn you don’t have to force a nonresident who wants a reasonable chance at hunting Montana to have to book an outfitter. That’s like a contractor saying oh well I do shotty work and no one wants me to build their home, you know what I’ll do I’ll have the state require anyone who moves here a certain percentage have to call me whether they want to or not! Doesn’t make sense there and it doesn’t make sense in your case either. You not having full books for the season sounds like an internal problem not the public’s.

Riddle me this.......who’s forcing a nonresident that wants a reasonable chance at hunting Montana to book with an outfitter?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Riddle me this.......who’s forcing a nonresident that wants a reasonable chance at hunting Montana to book with an outfitter?

if 143 passes, MOGA.

 

[brocksw]

if 143 passes, MOGA.

Considering it is literally the point of the entire 92 page thread....I'm shocked he even had to ask.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Considering it is literally the point of the entire 92 page thread....I'm shocked he even had to ask.

They've gone in so many circles trying to justify their welfare that they've forgotten what they wanted.

 

[BT_NVhunter]

Riddle me this.......who’s forcing a nonresident that wants a reasonable chance at hunting Montana to book with an outfitter?

By requiring 40% NR tags to go to outfitting clients. That’s why I said a reasonable chance. Your forcing the hand of people and cutting a persons draw odds in half if they decide they don’t want an outfitter.

 

[Carnage2011]

By requiring 40% NR tags to go to outfitting clients. That’s why I said a reasonable chance. Your forcing the hand of people and cutting a persons draw odds in half if they decide they don’t want an outfitter.

Aren’t we past the 40% allocation already or did I miss something? The amendments got rid of that and created an early draw. I don’t see a ton of harm in the bill now. It would allow anyone to put in for the early draw if they pay an extra $300 and also allow outfitters to find out earlier if they will have some clients. If the bill passes with those amendments i won’t have any heartburn. It’s similar to Wyoming’s system and I like it. $300 extra isn’t a ton of money and Montana is still going to sell out of NR tags.

 

[Big Shooter]

if 143 passes, MOGA.

BS!!