Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[Mtnhunter1]

As listed:


" Sale and use of Class B-10 and Class B-11 licenses. (1) The department shall offer the 24 Class B-10 and Class B-11 licenses for sale through an early drawing and a general drawing as follows: 25 (A) (I) EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN SUBSECTION (1)(A)(III), 40% OF THE CLASS B-10 AND CLASS B-11 LICENSES 26 MADE AVAILABLE PURSUANT TO 87-2-505 AND 87-2-510 MAY BE PURCHASED THROUGH AN EARLY DRAWING TO OCCUR 27 ON JANUARY 15 BY PERSONS WHO APPLY BETWEEN DECEMBER 1 AND DECEMBER 31 FOR A FEE OF $300. IF APPLYING 28 AS A PARTY, EACH PERSON MUST PAY THE APPLICATION FEE. APPLICATION FEES MUST BE USED BY THE DEPARTMENT TO 67th Legislature SB 143.3 - 2 - Authorized Print Version – SB 143 1 SECURE, DEVELOP, AND MAINTAIN WILDLIFE HABITAT PURSUANT TO 87-1-242. AT THE END OF EACH FISCAL YEAR, 2 UNOBLIGATED FUNDS COLLECTED PURSUANT TO THIS SUBSECTION (1)(A)(I) ARE AVAILABLE TO THE DEPARTMENT FOR 3 ANY PURPOSE PURSUANT TO 87-1-201(3). 4 (II) THE DEPARTMENT SHALL CONDUCT THE EARLY DRAWING IN ACCORDANCE WITH 87-2-115. APPLICANTS 5 WHO ARE UNSUCCESSFUL IN THE EARLY DRAWING MUST BE ENTERED IN THE GENERAL DRAWING CONDUCTED PURSUANT 6 TO SUBSECTION (1)(B). ANY LICENSES THAT REMAIN UNSOLD IN THE EARLY DRAWING MUST BE ISSUED IN THE GENERAL 7 DRAWING CONDUCTED PURSUANT TO SUBSECTION (1)(B). 8 (III) THE COMMISSION MAY INCREASE THE PERCENTAGE OF CLASS B-10 AND CLASS B-11 LICENSES AVAILABLE 9 FOR PURCHASE IN THE EARLY DRAWING TO UP TO 50% OF THE TOTAL AVAILABLE "

Along with the 2,000 landowner sponsered.

 

[BT_NVhunter]

Yes we are. It was amended out. MOGA may not like it, but as it currently sits there are no outfitter set asides. It can be amended back in but that isn’t currently the case.

I understand that as it sits it’s amended out. However it sounds like that’s the part MOGA truly wants and is not wanting it to go through as it sits. That leads me to believe they’re waiting for a last minute push of public approval as it sits, then try to slip the 40% back in? In others words “ the original bill or no bill at all”.

 

[BuzzH]

No, that's the point?

According to bigshooter all the money from outfitting stays in Montana...which everyone knows is a lie.

 

[brocksw]

According to bigshooter all the money from outfitting stays in Montana...which everyone knows is a lie.

Well we know one of bigshooters guides doesn't live in MT (as pointed out earlier in this thread). I think the whole guides/guided/DIY economic argument is horseshit aside from that.

 

[TheJason]

Im not really hung up on the principle of it.

Sometimes principle is everything.

Also, if you continue to accept putting lipstick on a pig for the NR draw, how do you ever expect FWP and the legislature to put forth a better product?

 

[Carnage2011]

Sometimes principle is everything.

Also, if you continue to accept putting lipstick on a pig for the NR draw, how do you ever expect FWP and the legislature to put forth a better product?

I don’t disagree

 

[brocksw]

Sometimes principle is everything.

Also, if you continue to accept putting lipstick on a pig for the NR draw, how do you ever expect FWP and the legislature to put forth a better product?

Could easily make the argument that the entire NAM that put us in this debate of luxury, was a method and practice based in principle over all else.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Well we know one of bigshooters guides doesn't live in MT (as pointed out earlier in this thread). I think the whole guides/guided/DIY economic argument is horseshit aside from that.

For $20 bucks you can pull the list off the https://ebiz.mt.gov/POL/home.aspx website.

Not going to lie I got to the last page, and then was like... seriously $20 to prove a point on a HT thread, bro what are you doing.

 

[Eric Albus]

They all kill something worth mounting?

The guys

I am going to disagree with you here. You’re paying money to potentially move into a preferential pool. Ergo, money to get more exclusive access. Not saying $300 is a deal breaker, but the principle is bullshit.

Montana holds reign over the lost convoluted and #@)(*%* up NR system there is. You’d think a room full of drunks engineered this thing. Bonus points. Preference points. Math is tooo hard so we need set asides. Oh wait, let’s have a first draw and a second draw. All the while the same 40 year old antiquated system of hunter dispersement keeps chugging along.

For Heaven’s sake, make NR apply for a HD (or cluster of) and revamp the shit show of a process going on right now. This is like throwing car tires on top of the single wide rooftop and calling it remodeling. What a joke.

No argument from me on this.

 

[Eric Albus]

According to bigshooter all the money from outfitting stays in Montana...which everyone knows is a lie.

I do not know the number of NR hunting outfitters in Montana but there are not many, and it is not by my choice, or Rod’s, they can operate here. The above comment is pathetic. Rod, one thing he isn’t is a liar.

 

[brocksw]

For $20 bucks you can pull the list off the https://ebiz.mt.gov/POL/home.aspx website.

Not going to lie I got to the last page, and then was like... seriously $20 to prove a point on a HT thread, bro what are you doing.

Could've just looked back about 40 or 50 pages ago in the thread. Can't remember which exactly. I believe someone posted a picture of one of his guides and it states he lives in CA. Maybe my memory is betraying me.

 

[brocksw]

For $20 bucks you can pull the list off the https://ebiz.mt.gov/POL/home.aspx website.

Not going to lie I got to the last page, and then was like... seriously $20 to prove a point on a HT thread, bro what are you doing.

I lied...different thread altogether. 35 and going downhill fast.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I like arguing about as much as anyone else but there’s a few things that are clear to me.

If the argument is about who brings the most money per N.R hunter to MT, it’s clear a guided N.R is spending more. Although in terms of wildlife management dollars there’s no difference between what FWP gets from guided or DIY.

To me, the argument should not be about money. We are talking about fair and equal allocation of opportunity to take possession of a limited public trust resource.
Outfitters might be trying to make the argument that the money their clients bring to the state justifies a subsidy for outfitters’ economic stability but I don’t agree.

 

[Big Shooter]

For $20 bucks you can pull the list off the https://ebiz.mt.gov/POL/home.aspx website.

Not going to lie I got to the last page, and then was like... seriously $20 to prove a point on a HT thread, bro what are you doing.

Goddamn! A guy goes out to do a few things, comes back in and has to defend himself. Yes.....I do have a guide that is from CA. He is also a client that every couple years when he doesn’t hunt here he guides a hunt. If you knew how much I don’t have to pay him.....you wouldn’t really worry about it.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Goddamn! A guy goes out to do a few things, comes back in and has to defend himself. Yes.....I do have a guide that is from CA. He is also a client that every couple years when he doesn’t hunt here he guides a hunt. If you knew how much I don’t have to pay him.....you wouldn’t really worry about it.

Lol I just really like a good spreadsheet.

Nothing personal.

If I had to guess 10% of outfitters and 30% of guides are NR.

I know there is at least one MA resident that is a MT outfitter adds for his business pop up all the time on my Instagram.

Generally speaking though I agree with @Gerald Martin on the subject.

 

[Wildabeest]

Goddamn! A guy goes out to do a few things, comes back in and has to defend himself. Yes.....I do have a guide that is from CA. He is also a client that every couple years when he doesn’t hunt here he guides a hunt. If you knew how much I don’t have to pay him.....you wouldn’t really worry about it.

Must be those years he doesn’t draw a tag. I guess you’ll fix that....

 

[BuzzH]

I do not know the number of NR hunting outfitters in Montana but there are not many, and it is not by my choice, or Rod’s, they can operate here. The above comment is pathetic. Rod, one thing he isn’t is a liar.

Really?

Then why did he say all of it stays in Montana, in reference to the money involved with outfitting?

Is that a truthful statement?

 

[Big Shooter]

Lol I just really like a good spreadsheet.

Nothing personal.

If I had to guess 10% of outfitters and 30% of guides are NR.

I know there is at least one MA resident that is a MT outfitter adds for his business pop up all the time on my Instagram.

Generally speaking though I agree with @Gerald Martin on the subject.

I didn’t take it personal at all. I bet your numbers aren’t far off.....maybe less than 10% in the outfitter category possibly.

 

[Big Shooter]

Really?

Then why did he say all of it stays in Montana, in reference to the money involved with outfitting?

Is that a truthful statement?

Ya know Buzz...you can call me whatever and look down that nose of yours at me or do whatever....doesn’t rattle me. I guarantee I’ve been cussed by way better men than you and probably will again. It makes me smile that there are a handful of folks on here that 100% disagree with what guys like Eric and I do and/or say, but yet can carry on an adult debate over it. This is great because both sides learn different views about the other side of the fence, which is great and I respect them for it. That’s how it should be. But then there’s you. Carry on.

 

[Eric Albus]

I like arguing about as much as anyone else but there’s a few things that are clear to me.

If the argument is about who brings the most money per N.R hunter to MT, it’s clear a guided N.R is spending more. Although in terms of wildlife management dollars there’s no difference between what FWP gets from guided or DIY.

To me, the argument should not be about money. We are talking about fair and equal allocation of opportunity to take possession of a limited public trust resource.
Outfitters might be trying to make the argument that the money their clients bring to the state justifies a subsidy for outfitters’ economic stability but I don’t agree.

Perhaps then a license good for only public lands and one for only private land needs be created.
Perhaps a private land mule deer tag, a public land md tag, and a whitetail license, buck R&NR can only hold one buck tag per year.