Non-resident outfitter license (MT) Bill is up for hearing 2/2/2021 (SB 143)

[BuzzH]

SA... Yes, and yes. Left home @ 15. I got a job. Improved upon that job with trade skills. I was laid off once. Tough gig though crap happens. Heard of day labor via job service? It's humbling however puts food on the table.
People have learned to depend on govt handouts far too much!
i.e. MOGA wants a piece of that pie... Guarantee my work. Guarantee me clients... b.s.

Our local McDonald's closed early because the unemployment "perks" beat a job that pays $14hr.

For Many, $600 Jobless Benefit Makes It Hard To Return To Work

For more than two out of three unemployed workers, jobless benefits exceed their old pay, researchers say. That can raise awkward questions for workers, bosses and policymakers.

www.npr.org

My wife has bank opening listed... No applicants.

While I'm not a fan of G... I think he hit this nail square on the head. Typical unemployment insurance is still there though you want that stimulus bump granted to states? Well, in MT, get back to work and presto... one month later a nice bonus awaits.

Then McDonalds need to pay more...so does the bank.

 

[BuzzH]

I’m paying $28 an hour...that’s well better than average for whitehall Montana. Anything else?

If you aren't attracting people at $28 an hour then do the work yourself or pay them more.

Considering the boom right now in Montana on land/real-estate, that's probably not enough to attract anyone to move there.

$28/hour sounds good on the internet, try buying a home, saving for retirement, paying for insurance, a basic/reliable vehicle, heat, water, garbage, and raising a family on that...

Simple math...

 

[Carnage2011]

If you aren't attracting people at $28 an hour then do the work yourself or pay them more.

Considering the boom right now in Montana on land/real-estate, that's probably not enough to attract anyone to move there.

$28/hour sounds good on the internet, try buying a home, saving for retirement, paying for insurance, a basic/reliable vehicle, heat, water, garbage, and raising a family on that...

Simple math...

About what I expected.
Im not asking anyone to move there. I’m asking people to make fair money in a small town that is still fairly affordable and show up to work. I’ve had plenty of applicants but only three made it to interview process.

The job includes several of the things that you list as expenses.

Your simple math explains to me why you work for the government and don’t own a business...

 

[BuzzH]

What's the average price of a house in Whitehall right now?

350k+...at least for something that's not a total dump.

What are taxes, insurance, and a payment on that...probably $1800 a month on a 30 year note? Heat, water, those aren't options and aren't cheap either.

There's a huge piece of that $28/hour.

Priced a used vehicle lately? New vehicle? Set of tires? Brakes?

$28/hour is a joke unless you want to live in a tent outside Whitehall, you've inherited a house, or bought about 15-20 years ago.

It is simple math...

 

[Carnage2011]

What's the average price of a house in Whitehall right now?

350k+...at least for something that's not a total dump.

What are taxes, insurance, and a payment on that...probably $1800 a month on a 30 year note? Heat, water, those aren't options and aren't cheap either.

There's a huge piece of that $28/hour.

Priced a used vehicle lately? New vehicle? Set of tires? Brakes?

$28/hour is a joke unless you want to live in a tent outside Whitehall or you've inherited a house.

Well there have been 4-5 homes in town listed for far less than that in the last week. They aren’t anyspecial but they are damn sure livable.

Yes, I’ve priced out plenty of vehicles...I own 3 businesses that need them. This position is for a foreman that provides them with a truck and fuel.

You act like no one has joint income these days. $28/hr would be tough to live on by itself, but it’s still a lot more than 95% of businesses in small town MT pay. I’ll pay someone what they are worth...show me you are someone I should keep around and I’ll give you a raise.

By the way, doesn’t anyone have a sense of pride anymore and want to get off their ass and do something? When the government stops handing these guys Covid checks and unemployment they will be less desirable because they’ve been sitting around while others make themselves more valuable.

 

[BuzzH]

Well there have been 4-5 homes in town listed for far less than that in the last week. They aren’t anyspecial but they are damn sure livable.

Yes, I’ve priced out plenty of vehicles...I own 3 businesses that need them. This position is for a foreman that provides them with a truck and fuel.

You act like no one has joint income these days. $28/hr would be tough to live on by itself, but it’s still a lot more than 95% of businesses in small town MT pay. I’ll pay someone what they are worth...show me you are someone I should keep around and I’ll give you a raise.

By the way, doesn’t anyone have a sense of pride anymore and want to get off their ass and do something? When the government stops handing these guys Covid checks and unemployment they will be less desirable because they’ve been sitting around while others make themselves more valuable.

Make all the excuses you want...I'm not the one crying about not finding quality help. Pay what quality employees are worth, you'll fill every position.

If you think wages have kept up with the cost of living, price of goods and services, housing, vehicles, etc....well, you haven't been paying attention.

As to the pride comment...how much pride does a business have that pays minimum wage? Or in the case of some service industries, less than minimum wage because their employees get tips? How much pride must a business like Amazon have paying $15/hour when the CEO buys a 500 million dollar yacht without a helipad, so has another yacht loaded into that one that can be launched with a helipad? How much "pride" does it take for Walmart to think they're going on all out paying $13/hour?

Not sure how there's any sense of pride in any of that...

Heaven forbid if these lazy unemployed people have a bargaining chip to maybe expect better pay by refusing a crummy job with poor wages.

 

[Beanland_fan]

We’re hiring entry level graduate engineers with a BSCE for $60k/yr starting salary, which is $28.85 if you figure direct hourly rate. They don’t seem to have a problem living on that salary in Indiana.

 

[Carnage2011]

Make all the excuses you want...I'm not the one crying about not finding quality help. Pay what quality employees are worth, you'll fill every position.

If you think wages have kept up with the cost of living, price of goods and services, housing, vehicles, etc....well, you haven't been paying attention.

As to the pride comment...how much pride does a business have that pays minimum wage? Or in the case of some service industries, less than minimum wage because their employees get tips? How much pride must a business like Amazon have paying $15/hour when the CEO buys a 500 million dollar yacht without a helipad, so has another yacht loaded into that one that can be launched with a helipad? How much "pride" does it take for Walmart to think they're going on all out paying $13/hour?

Not sure how there's any sense of pride in any of that...

Heaven forbid if these lazy unemployed people have a bargaining chip to maybe expect better pay by refusing a crummy job with poor wages.

I’m not making any excuses and I’m not crying about anything. I’m giving you facts about what I’m offering and the fact that people don’t want to work. My business is still running well and everything is being completed like normal.

I know wages haven’t kept up. However, printing money at alarming rates isn’t going to help that at all.

I agree with you on everything regarding those big businesses. $13-$15 an hour is ridiculous and I’m all for paying people what they are worth.

Where you and I disagree is regarding their bargaining chip. I don’t believe the government providing someone with a free living is a bargaining chip. There are more tools than ever to learn and develop from. Make yourself valuable and go get a job that knows your worth! Or start your own business.

I don’t find it ironic that the hardest workers and people that maximize their capabilities never seem to stay unemployed for long.

 

[Carnage2011]

Everything I can find is showing Montana as having a much lower unemployment rate than the rest of the country, at less than 4%. I'm pretty sure the reason no one can hire good help right now is because everyone already has a job. Everyone I know who was forced to take the covid unemployment is back working full time.

$28/hr is very high wages for Montana. Do you have a link @Carnage2011 ? I couldn't find it through the job search sites.

And for what it's worth, Montana's minimum wage is $8.75 an hour. A lot of people here would love to make that Amazon money.

We only posted it locally. As Buzz pointed out, I didn’t expect anyone to move here for the job...I was just looking to hire someone local and pay them decent.

If you really do want more info let me know and I’ll send it over.

 

[BuzzH]

We’re hiring entry level graduate engineers with a BSCE for $60k/yr starting salary, which is $28.85 if you figure direct hourly rate. They don’t seem to have a problem living on that salary in Indiana.

Sure, depending on where you live that may be a decent wage...in Montana right now...probably not.

 

[shoots-straight]

I can’t name four fellas, but I can name 3 females off the top of my head. Does that count?
I’ve been trying to hire someone for 6 weeks and can’t seem to find anyone worth a shit. I’ve interviewed 3 so far and they weren’t worth half of what I’m willing to pay. If someone has no skillset, and no ambition then they probably aren’t worth $15 an hour.

There is plenty of work out there for someone that has a little drive....

I try hard to drive less.

 

[brockel]

We’re hiring entry level graduate engineers with a BSCE for $60k/yr starting salary, which is $28.85 if you figure direct hourly rate. They don’t seem to have a problem living on that salary in Indiana.

I know quite a few oilfield positions right now that pay less than that here in eastern Montana. And oil is where the “big bucks” are supposedly.

 

[Gerald Martin]

A full 40 hrs with a company truck for $28 an hour would have caught my attention for as long as I have lived here.
Maybe I should tell that guy on the corner holding the cardboard sign asking for “anything helps” at the stop sign by Target with the “now hiring starting @$15” banner out front, that he should just head on over to Whitehall.
My feeling is that anyone who wanted a job and could hold it for any amount of money is already working. Those folks staying at home probably would cost more than they are able to produce.

 

[antlerradar]

I’m paying $28 an hour...that’s well better than average for whitehall Montana. Anything else?

If you aren't attracting people at $28 an hour then do the work yourself or pay them more.

I agree, pay more and then pass the extra cost onto your customers. Might as well do your part to contribute the inflation that is likely to come in the future.
Then again maybe your competition will not allow you to pass on the extra cost because they outsourced there labor costs over seas or maybe they hire undocumented workers under the table.

 

[Gerald Martin]

We only posted it locally. As Buzz pointed out, I didn’t expect anyone to move here for the job...I was just looking to hire someone local and pay them decent.

If you really do want more info let me know and I’ll send it over.

Maybe some outfitters and guides will be contacting you for a job with a good wage for the area. They are all so close to poverty with uncertain futures due to their inability to secure guaranteed licenses......

 

[Carnage2011]

Maybe some outfitters and guides will be contacting you for a job with a good wage for the area. They are all so close to poverty with uncertain futures due to their inability to secure guaranteed licenses......

I do appreciate your sense of humor

 

[Eric Albus]

But in post 252 you said this?

"Buzz, I already do that(pass off the over drawn hunters to other outfitters)."

I am confused

Certainly I overbook, but its not a viable solution.

 

[Eric Albus]

I wish the government would require people to use an accountant to do their taxes. Would really help my wife’s business. Then she wouldn’t have to do the leg work of advertising and meeting with new clients.

Your wife does not have to have her prospective clients enter a draw to use her services, so think of a better analogy.

 

[Eric Albus]

Anytime I'm looking to start a productive conversation and work towards a compromise, I always make sure to start by labeling the other party as "haters/detractors" to really facilitate said compromise.

Perhaps the choice of words was a little harsh, reprimand accepted.

 

[Sytes]

Sure, depending on where you live that may be a decent wage...in Montana right now...probably not.

Before or after the out of state moving to MT boom?
That is bound to flip some communities on their ass. Then again...

Nation average by county:

NW MT
March '21:
Flathead County: 5.6%
Lake County: 5%
Lincoln County: 8.8%
Mineral County: 7.1%
Missoula County: 4.4%
Sanders County: 6.4%