NM public lands locked.

[MTGunner]

I have come across some public lands, BLM and NM state lands, that have locked gates even on county roads. Now, I am not a resident of NM, rather resident of MT. There is a brochure for MT public lands but not sure about NM public lands. Can anyone from NM, that has pertinent information, offer an explanation to this Issue? Have spoke to land owner who claims NM state land as his land. MTG

 

[hank4elk]

It might be his lease ,but I'm sure he thinks it is his. Common here. They sell & trade leases a lot too. They list it as property in land sales too...
NM does have a map site with gate access during hunt season. It's on NMG&F & BLM website. But that's BLM.
Ranchers with state trust lands along county, state & federal roads should have gates unlocked during hunting season, but I have seen many locked.

 

[bobbydean]

There is public land right out of Roswell with locked gates. They are allowed because there are other access points (fifty miles away).

Sucks!

 

[Trial153]

I seen neighboring ranch’s in NM weld gates shut.

 

[Trial153]

.......

 

[madtom]

Don't know all the rules with NM state lands, but I'm surprised they can do that on a county road that crosses BLM. Guess I'd call a warden or a sheriff for clarification.

 

[hank4elk]

NM State Trust Lands are NOT PUBLIC LANDS.
BLM & USDA-FS are Public Lands.

 

[MTGunner]

OK, I contacted a local NM game and fish officer regarding this issue. Some NM state lands are legally leased and can only be hunted during the legal season for which NMG&F make arrangements. If NM state lands can be accessed by way of a county road it is legal to hunt them during the game season. But, cannot Hunt NM state lands that are land locked as these most often require access via private property which requires permission from the land owner.
Now, BLM land cannot be leased. A rancher, farmer pays a fee for grazing ONLY! But, we must be aware that cattle or other farm animals may well be present and we as hunters must be careful not to harm them in any way. Let’s face it, put our best foot forward. BLM cannot be locked property. It belongs to all of the U.S. citizens for public access and use. There some rules regarding man made corrals(sp) and water tanks that apply to BLM lands. MTG

 

[AggieOutlaw]

There are a couple issues here. One is landlocked state lands, which is not unique to NM.

The second, as Hank says (and the NM State Land Commission Website emphasizes), NM State Lands are not public lands. First of all, that is ridiculous...of course they are public lands. They are a public asset, held in trust, by a publicly elected official. They'd be more precise saying "NM State Lands are closed to public access." But, lets grant the premise. The NMDGF spends a fortune in a lease agreement with the Land Office to allow hunting on state lands. We "own" that land as much as the grazing leaser who locks us out.

The third issue is access. Roads are illegally blocked and gates are illegally locked. Those are facts. Every hunter in NM has experienced it. Even when they aren't locked, you aren't welcome. I have been accosted by a land owner for stopping and glassing from a public road on to public land. Then special interests use state and local government to literally close public roadways, as in the case of Chaves Co simlply closed Felix Canyon Road which eliminated access to tens of thousands of public acres.

You don't need to privatize public lands if no one can get to them. This has become the winning strategy for private interests to steal public land. They used this approach with the stream access bill, which undeniably violates the State Constitution. They are now using to block public roads.

Don't believe me? Am I exaggerating? Tell me with a straight face that these land private citizens are making this argument in good faith.

Poor road maintenance leaves residents wanting closure, hunters upset

The fight over closing access roads to public lands continues. After losing access to a portion of Felix Canyon Road last year, concerns are rising over losing another access road to public lands.

www.krqe.com

 

[Trial153]

There are a couple issues here. One is landlocked state lands, which is not unique to NM.

The second, as Hank says (and the NM State Land Commission Website emphasizes), NM State Lands are not public lands. First of all, that is ridiculous...of course they are public lands. They are a public asset, held in trust, by a publicly elected official. They'd be more precise saying "NM State Lands are closed to public access." But, lets grant the premise. The NMDGF spends a fortune in a lease agreement with the Land Office to allow hunting on state lands. We "own" that land as much as the grazing leaser who locks us out.

The third issue is access. Roads are illegally blocked and gates are illegally locked. Those are facts. Every hunter in NM has experienced it. Even when they aren't locked, you aren't welcome. I have been accosted by a land owner for stopping and glassing from a public road on to public land. Then special interests use state and local government to literally close public roadways, as in the case of Chaves Co simlply closed Felix Canyon Road which eliminated access to tens of thousands of public acres.

You don't need to privatize public lands if no one can get to them. This has become the winning strategy for private interests to steal public land. They used this approach with the stream access bill, which undeniably violates the State Constitution. They are now using to block public roads.

Don't believe me? Am I exaggerating? Tell me with a straight face that these land private citizens are making this argument in good faith.

Poor road maintenance leaves residents wanting closure, hunters upset

The fight over closing access roads to public lands continues. After losing access to a portion of Felix Canyon Road last year, concerns are rising over losing another access road to public lands.

www.krqe.com

This^ NM seems especially bad in these regards. Seems like every trip I make we have run in access issues regarding closed roads that should be open. We have gone so far as to meet a commissioner to discuss one particular place that been especially bad.

 

[hank4elk]

NM, Land of Entitlements.

 

[MTGunner]

Hank, my concern is that locking of public lands, state lands is getting out of hand. Or perhaps, has gone so far as it may not be reversed. This, I hope, is wrong. So, as an older Hunter, retired, I have the time in seek out new places to hunt, legally hunt. When I come upon a situation I am known to research and investigate what truly is in the best interest of all recreational opportunities.
By contacting the SW NM game and fish officer I gained lots of information. This situation is far from new and his information has given me tools for leverage to hunt new areas. But, I/we are few that actually research the issue. For those that set on their laurels I say some day you will be locked out and crap out of luck!
To those who would set on the side line or merely break the law I say, “get up, get out and work for all sportsman issues”. Those that break the law need not apply! MTG

 

[hank4elk]

It is getting worse where I am. Being heavily checkerboarded with private,state & BLM lands, it is easy to do.
Not working with all the landowners does not help either.

You must have caught one on a good day MTGunner. Hard to get clear info from them consistently.
Knowing the law helps. Knowing the property lines & a few access points is a big one.

My take is the whole State Lands Trust is corrupt & needs an overhaul. For a so called public trust ,not too trust worthy..
Billions in accounts run by cronies & we have the worst schools in the country. Land leases sold & swapped like private property. Lease fees way less than what is paid to private owners.
I do not believe spending all the $ on preschool is the answer either. Parenting classes would be good....lol

Still do not know if NMG&F has a signed contract with State Lands Trust this year either. They started jacking up the terms for hunting rights several years ago & had asked for $5mil a year.

With the new Gov. this year & the recent request for all G&F Commishioners resignations has not eased anything. New State Lands Commishioner too.
Throw in the changes to E-plus this year & the tripling of draw tags in my unit ,it is going to get very Western ........as they say.

 

[WapitiBob]

I Believe the state land surface lessee controls access and the nmgf hunting access lease is for state land not otherwise leased. Example, the long term Simms lease of state land and the subsequent loss of access to view those transplanted sheep.

 

[NMGuy]

There are a couple issues here. One is landlocked state lands, which is not unique to NM.

The second, as Hank says (and the NM State Land Commission Website emphasizes), NM State Lands are not public lands. First of all, that is ridiculous...of course they are public lands. They are a public asset, held in trust, by a publicly elected official. They'd be more precise saying "NM State Lands are closed to public access." But, lets grant the premise. The NMDGF spends a fortune in a lease agreement with the Land Office to allow hunting on state lands. We "own" that land as much as the grazing leaser who locks us out.

The third issue is access. Roads are illegally blocked and gates are illegally locked. Those are facts. Every hunter in NM has experienced it. Even when they aren't locked, you aren't welcome. I have been accosted by a land owner for stopping and glassing from a public road on to public land. Then special interests use state and local government to literally close public roadways, as in the case of Chaves Co simlply closed Felix Canyon Road which eliminated access to tens of thousands of public acres.

You don't need to privatize public lands if no one can get to them. This has become the winning strategy for private interests to steal public land. They used this approach with the stream access bill, which undeniably violates the State Constitution. They are now using to block public roads.

Don't believe me? Am I exaggerating? Tell me with a straight face that these land private citizens are making this argument in good faith.

Poor road maintenance leaves residents wanting closure, hunters upset

The fight over closing access roads to public lands continues. After losing access to a portion of Felix Canyon Road last year, concerns are rising over losing another access road to public lands.

www.krqe.com

When I reviewed the three requests submitted for the closure of Picacho road (referenced in the KRQE article), they cited reckless driving around livestock, poaching, trash, and damage to property. Those requests were all denied after the county commissioners got push back from the public. Part of those three requests would have closed a section of county road that was the only access point to a significant portion of public land. As for the closure of Felix Canyon Road, I honestly don't know the details of that county road closure. I do have to ask though, was access lost or was road access lost? It is my understanding that the land is still accessible, but by a longer route. However, it is also my understanding those requests were approved without due process, which shouldn't have been allowed.

As for State Trust Land, as Hank pointed out they have negotiated higher access fees over the past few years. As recently as 2014 or 2015 we only paid $200,000 per year to access State Trust Lands for hunting. When Aubrey Dunn came in, he raised it to $1,000,000 and made it known he was interested in raising it further. I personally feel like $200,000 for all hunters to access 9 million acres of the state land was a hell of a deal, so I don't mind a higher fee but it has to stop at some point.

Also, some State Lands are withdrawn from hunting. You can go on the State Land Office website to see a map.

http://www.nmstatelands.org/Recreational_Access.aspx

 

[blueridge]

I do not believe spending all the $ on preschool is the answer either. Parenting classes would be good....lol

This! ^^^

 

[AggieOutlaw]

When I reviewed the three requests submitted for the closure of Picacho road (referenced in the KRQE article), they cited reckless driving around livestock, poaching, trash, and damage to property. Those requests were all denied after the county commissioners got push back from the public. Part of those three requests would have closed a section of county road that was the only access point to a significant portion of public land. As for the closure of Felix Canyon Road, I honestly don't know the details of that county road closure. I do have to ask though, was access lost or was road access lost? It is my understanding that the land is still accessible, but by a longer route. However, it is also my understanding those requests were approved without due process, which shouldn't have been allowed.

As for State Trust Land, as Hank pointed out they have negotiated higher access fees over the past few years. As recently as 2014 or 2015 we only paid $200,000 per year to access State Trust Lands for hunting. When Aubrey Dunn came in, he raised it to $1,000,000 and made it known he was interested in raising it further. I personally feel like $200,000 for all hunters to access 9 million acres of the state land was a hell of a deal, so I don't mind a higher fee but it has to stop at some point.

Also, some State Lands are withdrawn from hunting. You can go on the State Land Office website to see a map.

http://www.nmstatelands.org/Recreational_Access.aspx

I never said the land owners aren't justified in their concerns about trespass, litter, poaching, and property damage. They are LYING about the reasons to "privatize" the road.

Sir, the other road to access the Felix Canyon area is Picacho.

Felix Canyon was closed by the same special interests who made the same claims: "poaching, property damage, litter, and public safety and commerce impacts due to poor road conditions"

Let's be honest about what is happening here.

As far as the State Trust Land lease agreement, when was the last time Aubrey Dunn raised royalties or leasing fees on the extractive industries or cattle ranchers by 500%? It is (was) his job to maximize revenue on the state lands. Why hold only NMDGF hostage? $1M is beans for the State Land Trust. But the Department operates on approximately $40M annually and 2.5% of the budget is a helluva lot more than beans to us! And as you point out, it doesn't even buy us access to all state lands. So, you think it's a bargain?

 

[NMGuy]

I'm not defending what the ranchers have done or arguing with you, I was simply clarifying for those who didn't see the actual written requests that were submitted last year. I realize Picacho is on the western side of Felix Canyon. Again, did we completely lose access to public land with the closure of that section of Felix Canyon or is it simply an inconvenience for those who have to now take a longer route (again, not arguing, I truly want to know)? Picacho has not been closed (yet), but I'm sure the local ranchers will continue to try. I can't personally speak to whether they are lying or not, as I don't live on that road but I've seen enough bad behavior elsewhere to know the claims aren't that far-fetched. I do know it is highly suspect for three different requests to be submitted that each would close adjoining sections of a county road that happen to go through public lands. Regardless of where the truth lies, I will continue to fight against any future requests to close off access to public lands.

I didn't follow what was done with royalties and leasing fees to others, so I can't/won't speak to that point. If ranchers, farmers and oil/gas companies aren't paying a fair price, their rates need to be raised. Based on fees, we were getting a pretty good price and we still appear to be. Grazing fees are hard to compare as I don't know standard carrying capacity. However, we were paying $.02 per acre before and we are now paying $.11 per acre for access to State Trust Lands. Mineral Lease Fees run from $.10 to $10 per acre plus royalties on top depending on the type of mineral being extracted. Granted, they are taking much more from the land and causing much more disturbance. So, where should our fee be or what is fair?

 

[hank4elk]

Fees on State & BLM lands for grazing in NM ,just went down. Bet the extraction fees have also gone down.

 

[AggieOutlaw]

I’m not against grazing or extraction. Far from it.

But don’t equate the leases. It’s not apples to apples. Hunters are ONLY allowed to access the lands during a hunting season while in possession of a valid license for that season and unit. We walk around and look through binos. Cattle and oil have a much larger and long term impact on the landscape and ecology. Not to mention we can’t access a lot of land due to the issue at hand on this thread: landlocked public property.

So we are getting a raw deal. It’s that simple.

Again, $1M is peanuts to the Land Office and it’s a big expense for DGF.