News about USO

[Delw]

pulled off another site

An email reply I received today. It may not amount to much but without sponsership the show will not go on.

July 22, 2004


To Whom It May Concern:

It has taken us a few days to sort through all the issues, rumors and
hearsay revolving around the recent court ruling concerning the Elk draw
in Arizona.

Primos has advertised its products on United States Outfitters' TV show
that airs on The Outdoor Channel and we have used USO's licensing
services as well as hired USO for its guide services in areas that we
were unfamiliar with. Primos has been pleased with all services
provided by USO.

Through a number of e-mails and phone calls it has become apparent that
people have lumped Primos Hunting Calls in with USO as being involved
with the court case. It was never our intention to take a position in
this matter, but rather to let the courts decide what was equitable or
not. That, of course, appears to have been misunderstood. With our use
of USO's products, Primos has been included in a fight we did not ask
for and do not desire to be a part of.

All of us at Primos are first and foremost for the Elk and the places
they call home. We do not want to do anything or be a part of anything
that takes away from that.

At this time, we have decided that in order to support elk, the other
wildlife of Arizona, and the places they call home, we should withdraw
USO's TV show from our list of sponsorships.

We thank you for your input. This has not been an easy decision to
reach but after much prayer and thought our decision is based solely on
what we feel is best for the Elk and the Elk hunting community.

Sincerely,


Will Primos
President, Primos Hunting Calls

 

[danr55]

THree cheers for Will Primos.. Now if we can get everyone else to feel that way, maybe we can hurt his pocket book..

Who else sponsors their programs??

 

[BuzzH]

A classic example of hunters pulling together to make a difference.

Now if we can just learn to be more PROactive instead of REactive...

 

[Calif. Hunter]

Amen, Bro Buzz.

 

[JoseCuervo]

I am surprised that Primos pulled out of USO's show. As USO did nothing other than try and maximize their opportunity for the benefit of all of us ('cept the AZ boys).

What was the crime the USO did? It looks like the Judge thought the AZGF was not following the law.

It will be interesting to see what the terms of the sponsorship were, and if it was a marginal deal with Primos, then you could see why Primos knuckled under.

 

[feclnogn]

Gunner, I think folks are tired of Taulman turning hunting into a richmans sport. I think the AZ suit was the last nail in the coffin for a bunch of folks.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Why wouldn't we all want to encourage everybody to work harder, and get richer, so they can hunt. Isn't that what Capitalism is all about???

Seriously, should any of us non-Residents be upset with USO? And shouldn't all Americans be happy the Judge upheld the Law???

For me personally, I think the caps on non-resident tags are "artificial" barriers to the market. I don't have a bit of problem paying for non-resident tags, as I assume the Commissions will set the price at what the market will bear. But I don't think I like caps on tags, to deny non-residents the opportunity to hunt.

(All of the above assumes that Non-Residents are paying more than their fare share of State Game Departments.)

 

[feclnogn]

I agree with you on most of those points gunner, but USO has a reputation of achieving success through less than ethical behavior. He has pissed a ton of folks off in a bunch of states. If you doubt this go find someone from Kansas and ask about their whitetail opportunities for Non residents and if they would recommend USO outfitters.

 

[BuzzH]

Gunner,

The judge upheld the law of interstate commerce. I'm fine with that, but what does interstate commerce have to do with wildlife management?

The reason I dont like this whole USO deal is that it just further commercializes hunting. Which is a disaster nearly 100 percent of the time. I just cant believe that people are willing to spend $113 dollars per state for USO to put them in for permits. If you're so lazy and so stupid you cant apply for your own permits...what are doing even hunting? For Christ sake, get involved with the sport you pretend to like.

I also believe that limiting NR hunters is proper for a multitude of reasons.

USO sucks.

 

[danr55]

Gunner, I will agree that one is innocent until proven guilty, but there is a move afoot in Arizona to prohibit anyone convicted of a felony from being a primary holder in, associate of, or principal in any guide or outfitting business in Arizona. Seeing as how Mr. Taulman is currently under indictment on no fewer the 11 federal and 9 state charges for violations ranging from conspiracy to violation of the Lacey Act, I believe that his outfit will see little benefit in the future from what they have done.

The major issue with out of staters in Arizona is volume. There are a limited number of tags available in Arizona under the current game management scenario. That is the primary reason that Arizona has the quality of game that it has. Now everyone wants a chance to come from where ever they are to Arizona to hunt. What about the folks who live here? It's not like Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, or Idaho where residents can buy tags over the counter. We have to draw tags every year. So now, the number of tags remains the same and the number of applicants has skyrocketed since the inception of the "on-line application" process. Anyone's odds of getting to hunt in thier home state has dwindled to less than the slim it was before.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Danr,
Having a law that said a felon couldn't be a primary holder in, associate of, or principal in any guide or outfitting business would decimate the Hunting Outfitting business across the West... Is the AZ version gonna have teeth in it, or would it be managed by the Outfitters Association, so that anybody could appeal, and be re-instated? In Idaho, we have a "Fox watching the Hen house" with the Outfitters and Guides Association being a regulatory agency... Makes no sense.

DanR, Buzz, and Fecl,
I am sure USO doesn't care about me, but from my view, am I not able to "ride his coattails" on the AZ issue? Is he actually helping me, the little guy from Idaho, to get a tag in AZ?

Danr,
Would a better solution be for AZ to somehow regulate the AZ residents into what tags they can get or apply for? I would bet the AZ problem is partially due to the number of AZ residents applying for too few of tags. Why not limit AZ applicants to just one application per year. Only Deer OR Elk OR Antelope, and see if that improves your odds of drawing. (Idaho kind of does that in that if you apply for Moose-Sheep-Goat, you can't apply for Deer-Elk-Antelope, but you still can purchase OTC>)

Hypothetically, If you had ZERO non-resident applicants, would your AZ Resident odds improve that much??? (and not considering the revenue hit to the Department of losing all the non-Res revenue.)

I am just kind of wondering if we aren't headed to a day where somebody says all the artificial barriers to non-residents in each state are eliminated, and everybody is on equal footing in each state....

 

[feclnogn]

Is he actually helping me, the little guy from Idaho, to get a tag in AZ?

Actually gunner he will be hurting your chances. This allows him to make the pitch to his clients that the cap in gone, thus making it easier to draw. In reality what just happened is two things, he will now flood the AZ app process with tons of his clients using his app service for $100.00 or whatever he charges. (This is actually a good scam on his part, he tells folks he has a high propability of getting you drawn, he does draw more tags but he does these by the 1000's so he does draw more apps. It is surprising to me that folks actually fall for this.)

Seccondly this also allows guys like you to say, "hey my odds just went up so I will apply using my credit card "

So now the units that gave out 50 bull tags and had 2500 hunters put in for it will now have say 10,000 hunters putting in for it. How does that help you??? It doesn't.

I think the wheels are about to fall of USO's wagon.

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Ban Outfitters tags !!! Start with USO !!!
It will be a sad day when our own sons and daughters can't draw tags to hunt in their home state but some lazy slob with a big fat checkbook and a USO contract in his wallet can .

The 10% cap is more than generous .

We volunteer our time and effort to wildlife habitat enhancement programs , transplant programs , guzzler construction , re-seeding efforts etc. so that USO can sell the animals that we care so much about to some rich slob who only cares about getting his name in the " record book "!

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey FairChase,

Why don't you get up off your lazy fat-ass and go post the prices on Nevada tags and licenses in the Resident vs. Non-resident thread...

 

[FAIRCHASEBEN]

Elk
Why don't you eat shit and die you miserable prick ! From now on if you don't have anything nice to say to me keep your @#)(#-holster shut !
I've told you before , you could have alot more positive debates if you wouldn't try so hard to piss everyone off first !

The thought of you with a high-powered rifle in the same state as me is very unsettling , cuz you're scarey stupid .

And besides , you can't afford it .

And I wasn't talking to you anyway .

 

[guppie9]

I'm not taking sides here or anything, and I certainly don't condone this sort of thing, however...this...

keep your @#)(#-holster shut !

has got to be one of the funniest comebacks I have ever heard. Holy s**t!!! ROFLMFAO

 

[JoseCuervo]

Hey Guseppie,

I don't think he saw the sarcasm in my post.... Either that, or he is a bit unstable...

I actually just thought since he was the resident Nevadan posting in SI, he could post the NV information on the other thread....

Maybe he just woke up on the wrong side of the bed today....

I am curious to know how he knew I left my fly down today, and even a bit scared to think why he is fantasizing about me with my pants un-zipped. I do think that is just a bit weird on his part...


Hey FairChase,

I really don't try that hard to piss everyone off... It actually is pretty easy to piss off people that aren't very smart....

 

[whitedeer]

Gunner.......the "@#)(# holster" he was referring to was above the neck.....not below the belt.

 

[JoseCuervo]

Ohhh.... I guess that is why I didn't understand the reference..... I guess he was probably a bit more aware of the term than I .....

 

[cjcj]

Gunner = Troublemaker!