Cheesehead
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2017
- Messages
- 1,046
New points theory
- Thread starter Duck-Slayer
- Start date
Zim
Well-known member
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Does anyone have to point out the Irony.
Zim
Well-known member
Stated exactly as Lenin would. Lol
Pucky Freak
Well-known member
Resident: 100% random
Nonresident:
-All current points of the old system are kept and converted to the new system
-Youth may not obtain points. However, youth may be gifted tags
-No point averaging. Group applications enter at the level of the lowest point holder
-No refunds if you draw
-Front the cost of the tag. Draw is 2 weeks later
-If you acquire a male tag under any circumstances, points are zeroed for that species
-MSG + grizzly are OIL, as are any rare species in a particular state (e.g. Arizona antelope)
-90/10 R/NR split
-No outfitter pool
-No base license
-All points are $100, purchased after the draw, one per year for the first 10 years
-After purchasing 10 points, you may purchase just 0.5 points per year, also for $100. After purchasing 15 points you may not purchase additional points or fractions of points.
-You may earn one point per year per species for each 20 hours of in-person volunteer field conservation work done in the previous year in that state in G&F sanctioned projects.
Here's the system: Every tag is a straight PP draw so long as the last tag is awarded to a point holder with 4 or fewer PP. If the last tag would be awarded to a point holder with more than 4 PP, the entire draw converts to a weighted bonus draw in which all applicants with 3 or fewer points is out of the running.
Example 1:
10 tags, 400 applicants
1 drawn at 7PP
2 drawn at 5PP
6 drawn at 4PP
1 drawn at 3 PP
390 not drawn at 3 PP and fewer
Example 2:
10 tags, 400 applicants
2 drawn at 7PP
5 drawn at 6PP
3 drawn at 5PP
*Since no one drew at 4PP or fewer, the computer resets the draw to a weighted bonus draw*
350 not eligible with 3 bonus points or fewer
10 drawn among the 50 applicants with 4 or more bonus points
Nonresident:
-All current points of the old system are kept and converted to the new system
-Youth may not obtain points. However, youth may be gifted tags
-No point averaging. Group applications enter at the level of the lowest point holder
-No refunds if you draw
-Front the cost of the tag. Draw is 2 weeks later
-If you acquire a male tag under any circumstances, points are zeroed for that species
-MSG + grizzly are OIL, as are any rare species in a particular state (e.g. Arizona antelope)
-90/10 R/NR split
-No outfitter pool
-No base license
-All points are $100, purchased after the draw, one per year for the first 10 years
-After purchasing 10 points, you may purchase just 0.5 points per year, also for $100. After purchasing 15 points you may not purchase additional points or fractions of points.
-You may earn one point per year per species for each 20 hours of in-person volunteer field conservation work done in the previous year in that state in G&F sanctioned projects.
Here's the system: Every tag is a straight PP draw so long as the last tag is awarded to a point holder with 4 or fewer PP. If the last tag would be awarded to a point holder with more than 4 PP, the entire draw converts to a weighted bonus draw in which all applicants with 3 or fewer points is out of the running.
Example 1:
10 tags, 400 applicants
1 drawn at 7PP
2 drawn at 5PP
6 drawn at 4PP
1 drawn at 3 PP
390 not drawn at 3 PP and fewer
Example 2:
10 tags, 400 applicants
2 drawn at 7PP
5 drawn at 6PP
3 drawn at 5PP
*Since no one drew at 4PP or fewer, the computer resets the draw to a weighted bonus draw*
350 not eligible with 3 bonus points or fewer
10 drawn among the 50 applicants with 4 or more bonus points
Hawk Tuah
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- Joined
- Apr 6, 2018
- Messages
- 1,600
Can we all just admit it isn't about being "fair." It is about what is best for you. Fair means different things to different people, and it is generational and tied to a lot more things in life than point systems for hunting tags.
Here's how it goes in our little world:
Newbie: "All point systems are terrible. They aren't fair."
Guy who started applying 5 years ago: "We need a modified system where the most you can accumulate is...uhhh ...let's say 5 points. That sounds fair."
Guy who has tons of points: "Preference point systems are great because it is fair for everyone to patiently wait their turn in line. Bonus point systems are terrible and will collapse tomorrow so newbies need to stop putting in. Little ol' me will keep putting in until I draw...I mean I have 26 points."
Old guys who just spent their last points on bighorn, moose and goats: "All point systems are terrible. They aren't fair."
No matter the system, the same amount of guys will get tags each year if supply stays stagnant.
Here's how it goes in our little world:
Newbie: "All point systems are terrible. They aren't fair."
Guy who started applying 5 years ago: "We need a modified system where the most you can accumulate is...uhhh ...let's say 5 points. That sounds fair."
Guy who has tons of points: "Preference point systems are great because it is fair for everyone to patiently wait their turn in line. Bonus point systems are terrible and will collapse tomorrow so newbies need to stop putting in. Little ol' me will keep putting in until I draw...I mean I have 26 points."
Old guys who just spent their last points on bighorn, moose and goats: "All point systems are terrible. They aren't fair."
No matter the system, the same amount of guys will get tags each year if supply stays stagnant.
44hunter45
Well-known member
A little bit longer drive for @wllm1313 to apply in Idaho than 10,000 Utahns.
Zim
Well-known member
Irony?
I’ll give you some real irony. My wife is a Chinese English teacher. She is from Sichuan. Her uncle was a science teacher in Sichuan who was a direct victim of Mao’s cultural devolution. In 1966 he was one of those who had a plaque hung from his neck, paraded around the town square, and sent to the countryside for 10 years. His career was destroyed. His crime…….being a teacher. Persecuted by peasants. What a pile of morons.Another irony? In 2012 I stopped Arizona HB2072, SFW’s attempted theft of the top 500 of YOUR precious public big game tags in AZ. They were slated to go on the auction block. Did you help me? Hell no. Where were you? What did you do to stop it? Oh ya……….same as Cool Hand Luke’s poker hand “nuthin”. You are the definition of a classic Nancy Pelosi democrat wanting “sumthin fer nuthin”.
You are attacking the guy that saved your precious trophy tags. While you sit at home leanin back in your easy chair. Asking “Ya but what have you done for me lately?”.
Unbelievable.Attachments
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Elkmagnet
Well-known member
I would give up a good amount of non resident points for a complete random system for my boys to apply in a few years. So my answer is kinda.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
First of all I hope you cleaned all of the public land mud off your boots and the states animal blood from your game bags.Irony?
Another irony? In 2012 I stopped Arizona HB2072, SFW’s attempted theft of the top 500 of YOUR precious public big game tags in AZ. They were slated to go on the auction block. Did you help me? Hell no. Where were you? What did you do to stop it? Oh ya……….same as Cool Hand Luke’s poker hand “nuthin”. You are the definition of a classic Nancy Pelosi democrat wanting “sumthin fer nuthin”.
You are attacking the guy that saved your precious trophy tags. While you sit at home leanin back in your easy chair. Asking “Ya but what have you done for me lately?”.
Also
Do you really think that I haven't been involved with hunting on a political level?
We did the exact same thing in Idaho 4 years ago. How would that be relevant to a discussion? Do I get points for that?
Mica Man
Well-known member
20 years of applying in the random draw of my home state has afforded me all three of my once in a lifetime tags. No preference points required. Didn't loose any points or get behind during the years I was in school and didn't apply. Never felt entitled, or that anything was "owed" to me for applying. Could get in or out of the game anytime I wanted. Sounds like a completely fair system to me.
Zim
Well-known member
Repeat Post #73 - "Here’s my points theory: All dissatisfied newbies form a lobbyist group, buy corrupt politicians in each state to get rid of outfitter welfare and SFW-type wealth tags stolen from nonresidents that cheapened point values. Now that would be truly constructive of your time, and shorten your wait, rather than screwing fellow sportsmen. I’m guessing you just think it’s easier to screw fellow sportsmen? Rather than follow an ethical route?"
39 Posts later and still not one comment on my 100% viable and far more constructive solution. Oh but it would take time and effort, God forbid. For the one NR archery deer tag in my Utah unit there are no less than 11 wealth tags on the auction block. Wrap your head around that. A 1 to 11 ratio and you losers are revolting against the 1 tag!!! Give me a break! Why not target the eleven??? Does that not make more sense???
Kindly specify the legislative bill# and exactly what you personally did.
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Elkmagnet
Well-known member
That seems like it would really help this thread move forward. If I do will I be a newbie still? Oh my gosh do I yearn for your approval. I'll see what proof I have and get back to you it may take a while please be patient.
Zim
Well-known member
No I’d just like to keep up to date on such legislative battles for my own record. I want to know what’s going on so I can get involved. I’m surprised there was an action there I was not aware of. At minimum I would have emailed each member of the house voting on it. But I don’t remember the bill. There are always legislators that are far from experts and I try to educate. Happens frequently. This actually includes my sister-in-law who is the new 10th district representative in Utah. She is a doctor and knows nothing about hunting related bills she votes on. I spoke with her this summer to get her up to snuff on SFW. Was Randy involved with this Idaho issue?
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Cheesehead
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2017
- Messages
- 1,046
No but did anything sad happen to your wife’s uncle? That would be germane.
Elkmagnet
Well-known member
Strange that you asked for how I was specifically involved. One I was helping fight that was HT involved search- idaho wild sheep foundation auction tags on here.
Between preference points, auction tags, increase landowner or outfitter tags. The never ended onslaught against our commie lands, changes to the trespassing law.
It seem to pop up on a yearly basis and we usually get it killed at introduction or killed in committee. I'm no Buzz or Ben long but I assure you I am involved.
For a good tracker of Idahos current sportsman related bills search Idaho wildlife federation and look under the legislative tab.
Attachments
Zim
Well-known member
I don’t hunt Idaho so that may be why I am not as interested. Got my hands full elsewhere. I got two death threats from Mormon outfitters when I busted 2072. Pissed off lots of big shots and their bounty hunters. Took years for them to leave me alone. Didn’t realize it was a full ten years ago. Quite sure the rooks here have no clue about this bill, and the repercussions. Thank god in the aftermath AZF&G recognized the threat, and formed a sportsmen’s advocacy group to prevent this from ever happening again. And it seems to have worked very well since to protect those public tags. This is what rooks need to do. They also need to be thanking us senior point holders, not trying to shake us down! They just don’t got a clue.
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Zim
Well-known member
Right but what good does giving guys “5 years to burn your points or lose them” in that scenario!? As if it’s something we can control. Just plain stupid.
Shangobango
Well-known member
And here is my theory: You wouldn't know ethical if it slapped you across the face.
Not us noobs fault you sat around for a quarter century building points when you could have had a tag a half a dozen times.
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