New Elk Hunter, Where to Start?

[Wisco]

Hey folks, I'm new to hunt talk so bear with me. As a 23 year old from Wisconsin, I'm not all that familiar with hunting the West. I made my first trip out this past summer to Wyoming and Idaho and absolutely loved it. I listen to Randy's podcast and absolutely love it. I've hunted Wisconsin my entire life and absolutely love it. So I'm hoping to combine all three and finally get out west for an elk hunt. Looking to go with a couple buddies who are also newbies. I have two questions for you guys:

1) As beginners, should we try to find outfitters so we can at least learn a little bit our first year. Or should we go on our own and learn from our own mistakes (I am leaning towards the latter).

2) If we do a DIY hunt, is it worth it purchasing goHUNT's Insider (You can thank Randy for giving me the idea...) considering we all have 0 points? Or should I just research OTC opportunities with free resources?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[buckykm1]

Personally, I think that there are several options,
But, hunting out west is nothing like hunting back east where we live. a hunting partner is a very good idea,specially for a rookie.
1 - doing a guided trip isn't a bad idea for the first trip, just to learn a little about Elk hunting.
2 - if you could do a DIY hunt with someone that has already hunted out west that would be ideal to help with the learning curve.
3 - find a friend that wants to Elk hunt, do a lot of research, and do a DIY hunt with a friend.

IMHO, what most people don't realize is how hard it is to get a Elk out, they aren't a 140 deer that you can just drag out, a average Bull is going to be 600 pounds + in many States, a cow 300 +, and quartering them and getting it packed out before it spoils is a lot of work. my last one took 2 of us 12 hours to get it out.

But Elk hunting is totally awesome, I will be somewhere out west chasing them until I just can't do it anymore, I will be 65 this year, and have no plans on giving up for at-least 6 or 8 more years.

Kevin

 

[Flatland Crusoe]

Outfitters are a good idea for guys who might only take one trip out west in their lifetime or older guys that can't handle the harder hunts, but since you are young I would suggest jumping in and figuring it will probably take 3 years of going out there before you find success.

Gohunt is most useful getting a high level idea of what units might work for you. It saves a lot of time. I think its most valuable when looking at many states and species. You can definitely do it with state websites and now a lot of states have advisers you can call to help you.

My 2 cents is I would go to ID with no points while building points in CO and WY. Colorado OTC is an easy process, but its not an easy hunt. Getting tags that are drawn with 0-2 points are a big step up from leftovers and OTC units.

I would also consider doing an antelope or mule deer hunt before elk just to figure out the logistics of hunting from 15-20 hours away.

 

[Speeddmn]

Hey folks, I'm new to hunt talk so bear with me. As a 23 year old from Wisconsin, I'm not all that familiar with hunting the West. I made my first trip out this past summer to Wyoming and Idaho and absolutely loved it. I listen to Randy's podcast and absolutely love it. I've hunted Wisconsin my entire life and absolutely love it. So I'm hoping to combine all three and finally get out west for an elk hunt. Looking to go with a couple buddies who are also newbies. I have two questions for you guys:

1) As beginners, should we try to find outfitters so we can at least learn a little bit our first year. Or should we go on our own and learn from our own mistakes (I am leaning towards the latter).

2) If we do a DIY hunt, is it worth it purchasing goHUNT's Insider (You can thank Randy for giving me the idea...) considering we all have 0 points? Or should I just research OTC opportunities with free resources?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Since you have youth on your side, get your friends and do a DIY. The cost itself of going with an outfitter will be 4-8k a person.... Save it for when you are super rich and old....

GoHunt is awesome when you are trying to figure out what state to hunt when you have lots of points for every state. Take the money from your friends and split the cost of a membership and learn the units and states. Just know not every unit's info is 100% accurate.

Apply for points or buy the points in the states you want to someday hunt, until you draw those tags, hunt the OTC states/units and learn typical elk behavior. The elk in Northern public land Utah and different then the elk in central Utah in a LE unit. Since you are coming from Wisconsin I'd look into applying in WY, CO and MT. Then hunt both OTC in MT and CO until you draw, maybe toss in a antelope hunt in WY or pheasant hunt in SD etc. Take the time off, have back up plans and try to do as much as you can in the time allotted.

Best advice I can give you is go in with a open mind, and don't be afraid to pack up and move somewhere else.

 

[Lostinthewoods]

I have one piece of advice that I always offer to every new elk hunter I meet, people who plan to hunt OTC, and even to some of the longtime elk hunters.

Build a solid plan for the year. Pick your state, plan the logistics, and plan to commit to it.
On top of that, I recommend applying for New Mexico.

I love New Mexico because all non-residents have an equal chance of drawing. (NO preference points)
Though the tag allocation for non-residents can small, everyone has the same opportunity to draw it.
The reason I say apply for NM is because there are some absolute amazing units to hunt and you can have an amazing first time experience.
New Mexico is also very good about returning your funds in a quick manner. (When you apply you will need to put the money up front. All of the money will be returned to if you are not drawn, minus a small transaction fee.)

Back to my original point.... plan for your OTC hunt, expect that to be the primary plan, but be flexible if you do draw a golden NM tag.

If you do consider applying for NM there are some things I would recommend.
When you apply for a tag do your research, this is where I think a LOT of people shoot themselves in the foot.
You get three choices for each species application. You want to make sure you give yourself optimal draw chances by following unit draw odd %s.

Let me explain and I hope I can hit home with this. So much easier to explain in person ha ha.
You want to put your lower draw odd units first and then taper off to the higher draw odds units.

Lets say we have unit A, B and C. A is 9% draw odds, B is 15% and C is 32%
Your draw application should go A, B, C.

If you did C, B, A you're minimizing your draw odds and decreasing the chances of you drawing your optimal unit.
That was kind of a crappy explanation, but if you need to hear it more, let me know. Or maybe someone else can explain it better.

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/hunting/applications-and-draw-information/how-new-mexico-draw-works/

^ This is how I figure draw percent's.
You can do some quick math and see how many people are applying for a unit, how many tags are available, etc.

Another thing to look at, but don't let this sell you is the harvest rate.
http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/hunting/harvest-reporting-information/

The reason I say don't let this sell you is because of the fact there are elk all over and good ones in every unit.
Put in your scouting time and you'll make it happen.

Finally and most importantly if you're applying as a group you need to check how many tags each unit allots to non-residents
Lets say you have 5 people in your group, but the unit you are applying to only gives out 3 non resident tags, it's virtually impossible to draw.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Lots of solid info here. I'd say go DIY as you want to become elk hunters not just go on an elk hunt. The learning curve is steeper and the odds for success are lower on the first hunt, but you will want to go back time and time again so you'll spend less money in the long run by hunting DIY.

Once you find a good DIY unit, I would reccomend sticking with it. Each area has unique characteristics with where elk live and how they move. It will take several years of hunting to consistently be into elk. When you figure out he dynamics of where elk are going to be, you will become a lot more successful. It's hard to do that if you are jumping from unit to unit. The given in all this is that you are in a good unit. That's where doing your homework is key.

 

[elkduds]

Read/watch all this, 1st thing: http://cpw.state.co.us/learn/Pages/EHU.aspx

 

[TheJason]

Let me preface the following by stating that I've never been on and never plan to go on a guided elk hunt. That said, I've admitted my ignorance will bias my opinion.

You're young. You want to learn HOW to hunt elk. From my limited knowledge, on a guided hunt, you are only going to learn how that outfitter hunts a certain area. Whether or not it is applicable and transferable to other areas/states is questionable.

If I were you, I'd devote my time to learning all that you can about elk habitat, movement, response to hunting pressure etc. Pick an area to hunt, and then pick several back up areas to hunt. Even the most experienced elk hunters pick a spot that turns to shit. The difference is, the experienced elk hunter has a plan B, C, and D, and can fall back on that and make some lemonade out of lemons. Oftentimes news and inexperienced hunters go all in on plan A and keep hunting the same spot with the same predictable results.

Plan a hunt. Make it an adventure. Have realistic expectations. Take lots of pictures. Do it again next year, and the next year, and so on.

Lastly, make darned sure that you and your buddies all have an honest and realistic picture of what each other want out of the hunt. Make sure all are willing to pitch in and help out around camp. Is one guy going to want to go to the bar every night and sleep in? Does one guy think his mom is in camp to wait on him? Does one guy flake on gas and grocery money? Hash out all of these questions ahead of time, and don't be afraid to "uninvite" someone if you are seeing red flags.

 

[henson270]

Hey Wisco,

As a Minnesotan (former Wisconsinite and cheesehead at heart) who is just getting started with his Western hunting, I can tell you that you're in a great place to plan your first hunt. To offer my 2 cents, I'd suggest to plan on going unguided, and absolutely buy the GoHunt insider. I'd go a step further, and say to ABSOLUTELY buy the HuntApp by OnXmaps. The wealth of information you'll glean from these services can't be measured.

My first elk hunt was in Colorado in the fall of 2014, and it was an absolute calamity, but taught me an insane amount. I prepared myself physically for the hunt and humped up the mountains with no effort. Everyone makes a fuss about being in shape, and it's important, but I think people need to put a greater emphasis on making sure your head is right. Meaning, prepare for adversity, prepare for misery, and have plans A-J. Be adaptable. Be prepared. Have fun. That is what this is all about after all, isn't it?

Send me a PM if you'd like to compare notes. I'm always happy to chat.

Regards

 

[Big Fin]

Hey folks, I'm new to hunt talk so bear with me. As a 23 year old from Wisconsin, I'm not all that familiar with hunting the West. I made my first trip out this past summer to Wyoming and Idaho and absolutely loved it. I listen to Randy's podcast and absolutely love it. I've hunted Wisconsin my entire life and absolutely love it. So I'm hoping to combine all three and finally get out west for an elk hunt. Looking to go with a couple buddies who are also newbies. I have two questions for you guys:

1) As beginners, should we try to find outfitters so we can at least learn a little bit our first year. Or should we go on our own and learn from our own mistakes (I am leaning towards the latter).

2) If we do a DIY hunt, is it worth it purchasing goHUNT's Insider (You can thank Randy for giving me the idea...) considering we all have 0 points? Or should I just research OTC opportunities with free resources?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Thanks for signing up here and thanks for listening to the podcast. A couple thoughts.

Approach your western hunting as a decade-long hunting quest. It is not practical to learn it all in one trips. Many think it is a one-and-done concept where they will come out, shoot an elk, and call it good. That usually results in frustration born of unrealistic expectations.

I would have two strategies, short-term and long-term.

Short-term would be places I could hunt elk every year or every other year and learn all I can about elk, gear, etc. That will make you far more effective as an elk hunter. States where you can do that are CO, ID, and to some degree, MT. Go to the same place three years in a row and you start to learn it as good, sometimes better, than the local weekend guys.

Long-term is to start building some points in a state(s) that fits your budget. Wyoming is the cheapest place to build points and in my personal opinion, has the best mix of quality/opportunity/access of any western elk state. In three or four years you will be in the running for some hunts that are well worth the small investment in points. Colorado points are not going to get you into a supposed "glory unit." You are too far behind the curve. But, they will get you into and earlier season where the quality of the experience might be better. If budget allows, apply in NM every year, as there is no point system and you never know when you might hit the jackpot, as a Hunt Talker can attest to, given he shot his first elk in the Gila by drawing a tag in his first stab at NM. If your budget is even bigger, build points in AZ. Of the southwest states of NV, UT, and AZ, you will get far more return on you investment in AZ than you will get in the other two states.

I am biased about goHUNT.com, as I started using it the day they came out and they do sponsor the podcast. Yet, I could use any and all research services. I could have deals with any of them. I use goHUNT because it is the best I can find. Even with that, they still make me pay for my annual subscription and they don't let me use the "RANDY" promo code for the $50 SW gift card.

And yes, the onXmaps APP is a must if you are serious about western hunting.

 

[Wisco]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I really appreciate you taking the time to help me out. There's a lot of great stuff in here and we're taking it all into consideration.

I think we'll likely end up doing a DIY hunt with an OTC tag from CO. Although that's a great point about applying for NM every year. I'm not entirely familiar with applying as a group. As far as I can tell, the group of us apply with the odds of one person, and if we're lucky enough to draw, all of us get tags correct? Drawback being, you need to have the necessary amount of tags remaining if you're drawn.

In the meantime I'll definitely be applying for points in AZ, WY, MT and CO. (Yikes, that's a lot. But I suppose better to set a precedent now before I have a wife, eh?)

Now starts the fun part: research. I've been chomping at the bits to finally purchase my goHUNT account, so thanks for talking me into it! Good luck to you guys as we get into application season!

 

[LopeHunter]

Wanting to hunt in a party makes it tougher when most states give most or all of the tags to higher point holders. One of you might pull a Golden Ticket tag in WY but unlikely 2 or 3 or 4 in a party can pull that ticket. WY has a few Golden Ticket elk tags for random draw but many of the best units give few tags so do not even award 1 random tag. If you apply separate in NM then one of you might get a great tag (though odds are a great tag is around 5% or less odds so on average you draw once every 20 years) but the others would need to buy a landowner tag which could be a deal breaker. UT give out a few Golden Tickets as does AZ. I do not know much about ID since I apply for sheep so am not in the elk draw.

You can elk hunt as a party with CO OTC or landowner tags, NM landowner tags or MT quasi-OTC. MT seems to be closer to you than CO or NM and is certainly closer than ID. Weather in NM might be less severe in the unit and during the drive to/from the hunt if go to NM rather than those other states.

I would look into a guide in either MT or CO or NM for the first year then learn what you can about hunting. Get references on the guide and look for one that hunts public land and has a high success rate even if on 260 class bulls. A 260 bull will make a Wisconsin whitetail look small.

The second year, maybe look into a drop camp. Once you have each had some shot opportunities then can easily shift to doing hunts on your own as will have learned what gear you need for the terrain you plan to hunt and what your limitations are for backpack vs wall tent vs trailer vs cabin vs motel. No need to torture yourself to go on a hunt but to each his own and I have backpacked in 6 miles, eaten dehydrated food and filtered water from a stream. Now I appreciate a warm shower, warm food, warm bed and a phone charger. Some hunts are such you have little choice but to hike in and camp or have a drop camp arranged.

Good luck on your adventures.

 

[buckykm1]

IMHO, I would be somewhat careful trying to get Pref points in to many States at one time, unless you can actually just buy a pref point in that State. to build them up. ie, WY, CO, AZ not sure about other States like Nevada or Utah ?, but last I knew, Utah actually had OTC Elk tags in some units, but mainly spike & Cow tags.
example, you apply for a NM tag, and a MT, tag in the same year, you could end up with a license in both States.
which would be great, if you can afford to go on 2 Elk hunts in the same year.
in MT., you can't just buy a pref point.
if you have a hunting partner, DIY is the way to go, it will take a few years to figure things out, but will save you a ton of money.

just something to consider while you do your research.

Kevin

 

[esracerx]

Depending on state you can do a semi-guided hunt. Essentially an outfitter for around 500 bucks points you in the right direction. May have to actually meet with the guide or outfitter. But you're not spending the big bucks for a fully guided hunt. But you gain knowledge of the species and unit you'd be in that may otherwise require a weeks long scouting trip. One thing we did our first time out west...talk to the locals. If there is a town nearby hit up the walmart, grocery store, gas station etc. We found a guy at Walmart that didn't have a tag but knew the unit well. Bought him a case of beer and he helped us out in otherwise difficult unit to learn. It's a lot to learn essentially going in blind with a weird new species. It's not quite the same as on tv.

 

[bluesulphur]

It looks like you have got some great advice already, but I'd like to point out that during my first two seasons DIY elk hunting in Colorado I learned more by screwing it up than I did the following year that I was successful in Wyoming. I'm a big believer in DIY because I think you benefit more from hunting hard and learning from your mistakes. Also, maybe I was lucky but I drew a 1st rifle Elk tag in Colorado 2 years in a row with no preference points. You don't always have to buy OTC in CO if you don't have any preference points.

 

[DAVIDKERR]

You can get leftover tags in Co on Aug.join rocky MT elk foundation.you might consider a drop camp. It is to late to apply for WY.good luck.

 

[AJPaper49]

Wisco, One good source of info. for Elk hunting etc is ( Elk-101) it is another forum about hunting, fitness etc and it's also a class you can take that will help you, if you have never hunted elk before. It's a 100 $ but good info. if your just starting out. Anyway just a thought. Best of luck !

 

[White Pines Hunters]

Thank you so much for all the good advice! We will be first time OTC elk hunter's this fall. When you say "doing your homework is key" can you elaborate? We are going to CO and have been scouring the Colorado Parks & Wildlife website for info. We've tallied success rates per unit and out of those units have researched terrain, nearest towns with support businesses-processing, supplies, etc, public land boundries and spent hours scouring youtube for videos of units that look promising to us. Is there more than we can and should be doing? Even with all this time and research it still feels a little like throwing a dart at the wall to pick a spot!

 

[wytex]

Don't forget you can get reduced price cow/calf tags in Wyoming without points. While NM and Colorado sound like the best plan for this year, don't over look the cow tag opportunities in Wyoming in subsequent years.

 

[JohnCushman]

In my opinion, archery is the way to go. You get better weather for the most part and you can get them in the rut. In Colorado the muzzleloader season overlaps archery and there's quite a few units you can get the tags for 0 points. Archery is OTC for damned near half the state, and they are either sex tags. Plus with Colorado archery, you get a month to hunt, instead of picking a single week and hoping for the best. I have found with the 2nd and 3rd season OTC bull tags you are battling the orange army and you have to get several miles in, or know where the elk go to escape pressure. Like I already said, archey is either sex, so if it's coming down to the end of your hunt you can pop a cow if need be. You can do OTC tags and still gain points. There's lots of 1st season tags you can get with 1 or 2 points and many 4th season tags you can get with 0. Good luck!!