Never Ending Challenge of Access

[SAJ-99]

Anyone have a chart of how much went money to Type 1 vs Type 2 BMA’s for any recent years?

Are landowners in both BMA types paid the same amount per individual hunter days?

Would have to google that. It’s more of a Ben Lamb/rain man question. I think they are paid the same per hunter. It more a question of unlimited access or controlled access. I think the complaints of Type II are the average guy can almost never get in. IE, landowners getting paid to let friends and family hunt. But we are all jaded by our experience.

The question I wonder is if any of the HT members won the Mega Million and bought a ranch of their dreams, how many would open it up to BM?

 

[Mountain Man]

Would have to google that. It’s more of a Ben Lamb/rain man question. I think they are paid the same per hunter. It more a question of unlimited access or controlled access. I think the complaints of Type II are the average guy can almost never get in. IE, landowners getting paid to let friends and family hunt. But we are all jaded by our experience.

The question I wonder is if any of the HT members won the Mega Million and bought a ranch of their dreams, how many would open it up to BM?

Not me.

 

[Nameless Range]

The question I wonder is if any of the HT members won the Mega Million and bought a ranch of their dreams, how many would open it up to BM?

With HuntTalk as my witness, If I win the Mega Million this year I will not only buy a ranch and put it in block management, I will just generally allow reasonable public use year round. Much like this 13,000+ acre ranch a few hundred yards down the road.


Do your thing God.

 

[Ought Six]

I am not so sure that NR tags would sell out. It would shift demand from DIY hunters to those that are willing to pay to play. Would likely reduce the number of NR hunting public, but increase the number of NR hunting clubs on private.

I definitely think they would still sell out. I don’t see the NR hunting clubs on private being that big of a deal, as I probably can’t hunt that private anyway.

I am, however, tired of seeing so many NR in my favorite public spots. Public land hunting should only be for residents (joking, but kind of not). There’s plenty of residents hunting that same public as it is.

 

[cgasner1]

Would have to google that. It’s more of a Ben Lamb/rain man question. I think they are paid the same per hunter. It more a question of unlimited access or controlled access. I think the complaints of Type II are the average guy can almost never get in. IE, landowners getting paid to let friends and family hunt. But we are all jaded by our experience.

The question I wonder is if any of the HT members won the Mega Million and bought a ranch of their dreams, how many would open it up to BM?

Nope I’d take that money and buy hunts and not worry about managing a ranch. I know a guy with a hobby farm that’s worth little over a million he hunts I offered to be a hunt broker for US if he sold it could finance all kinds of hunts

 

[antlerradar]

I definitely think they would still sell out. I don’t see the NR hunting clubs on private being that big of a deal, as I probably can’t hunt that private anyway.

After I161 passed and NR prices took a big jump, Fewer NR applied for the draw then there was tags available for many years. FWP may have sold them in later, but the draw was 100% for years. The problem with hunting clubs is that they normally involve a big decrease in hunter days even over what outfitters would take. For example near me is a ranch that in now in a hunt club. When the outfitter was hunting it he would take 15 to 20 hunters a year there, now there are only five. The extra 15 licenses that used to go to outfitted NR hunters are likely now going to DIY NR's that are hunting public.

 

[Shed God]

I talked to my friend. Friends with him since grade school. Kinda of caught him off guard. I can hunt his property anytime I want. It's outfitted. But the shitty stuff is block management. What uh came of the conversation was. This. It's a good program that allows a few to harvest some animals. And allows access to private. Political saying. But in reality fock that shit. Me and him have a bet. He will win. Stacked in his favor. But the public land hunter needs to realize fock the land owners unless they allow hunting. It's there problem. There turning it into profit. Fock the private. My opionon. The majority hunts public. How can private profit off cattle on public lands then fock everybody come hunting season. Stacked deck.

 

[Shed God]

Well ya ben lamb. U would be a dip shit if u didn't put at least half into block management. Making $$.

 

[Shed God]

6 million into this yr alone. Block management. Say over last 30 yrs. It averages 3 million. That's 90 million dollars they could of purchased and owned land with. Then say u get into cattle grazing on public lands I have no idea the number that private would be in debt to the public. Probably just a guess 10x that. Compared to private prices. Hold the private accountable to the desiese they create by not allowing public land hunting. It was ruled by a judge the elk are public. Let them feed em.

 

[Shed God]

If I win the mega millions. Buying land. As much as possible. But be very adimate it all LE. Course I get a tag a few. Lol. Open it up. Very limited draw. Lol

 

[WanderWoman]

Would have to google that. It’s more of a Ben Lamb/rain man question. I think they are paid the same per hunter. It more a question of unlimited access or controlled access. I think the complaints of Type II are the average guy can almost never get in. IE, landowners getting paid to let friends and family hunt. But we are all jaded by our experience.

The question I wonder is if any of the HT members won the Mega Million and bought a ranch of their dreams, how many would open it up to BM?

This is actually a recurring fantasy of mine. Coming into a bunch of money, buying a huge ranch, putting a CE on it, put it in BM, and then lease the grazing to a similar-minded landowner.

Then I had a friend tell me this mindset is why I’ll never come into a bunch of $$.

 

[WanderWoman]

One of the best ways to leverage long-term access on private lands is through FWP CEs. The $$ that goes to the landowner makes it lucrative for traditional producers to take interest, helps them stay on the land, and provides access forever. Conserve wildlife, MT traditions, and public access for a helluva deal on a completely voluntary basis. It’s a shame this administration doesn’t seem to understand or appreciate that. Our kids and grandkids will rue the things we don’t do today, tomorrow.

 

[antlerradar]

6 million into this yr alone. Block management. Say over last 30 yrs. It averages 3 million. That's 90 million dollars they could of purchased and owned land with. Then say u get into cattle grazing on public lands I have no idea the number that private would be in debt to the public. Probably just a guess 10x that. Compared to private prices. Hold the private accountable to the desiese they create by not allowing public land hunting. It was ruled by a judge the elk are public. Let them feed em.

Ninety million won't even by you a 100 K acres and in two years it would be just as pounded as the rest of the public.

 

[Sytes]

Then I had a friend tell me this mindset is why I’ll never come into a bunch of $$.

The common truth!

BMA issues are a symptom of the broken big game management plans, from elk to muleys and all between and the elephant in the room: the devolving human ethical standards.

Game management plans:

Restructure seasons
Reduce / re-distribute pressure
Increase quality

There's a moral compass that runs a L/O to enroll his/her property into a govt managed public access program.
This "moral compass" is a fading unwritten code of ethics. It's fading because humans, in general, are devolving from past practice and public presumptuous expectation rather than appreciation.

Bit of a Debbie downer though humans are digressing each decade that passes.

How to fix it? I believe the master's program is a great start! I simply dislike the name. Tone down the "master's" word and the optics will elevate common perception that leads to further "citizenry" for access..

 

[TheJason]

This is actually a recurring fantasy of mine. Coming into a bunch of money, buying a huge ranch, putting a CE on it, put it in BM, and then lease the grazing to a similar-minded landowner.

Then I had a friend tell me this mindset is why I’ll never come into a bunch of $$.

Sounds familiar to my own thoughts.

 

[TOGIE]

god and hunt talk as my witness, if i win a half billion dollars in the powerball i'm hiring a legal and real estate team to find as many bang for your buck properties that create access to otherwise locked out public land across the west while opening those properties up entirely to the public via conservation easements and donation/lease to game agencies/USFS/BLM.

not sure why i'd bother with block or whatever with that kinda money.

sad thing, even a half billion probably wouldn't go nearly as far as i/we would all wish.

but yes, i'm buying a property somewhere all for myself too.

 

[Shed God]

Ninety million could open up alot more.

 

[jmcd]

A rancher I know had some excellent ground in BM for over a decade. They got tired of the throngs of people and bad experiences. After being told for years by FWP that there was no more $$ available, they leased it to an outfitter for about 4x the $$ and substantially less use days, more control of what happens on their place, etc. He said for him the lessened pressure and problems dealing with clowns would make them likely to never go back, regardless of an increased pmt.
I visited with a BM coordinator and asked a ton of questions about how the program works for a landowner. I was surprised how rigid it was and how little it paid. Granted, this was a decade ago…. Likely has changed a bit by now.

Food for thought when thinking about problems with Block Management. We as hunters can think about what we want all day long. But, until we come up with ways to make it more appealing to landowners, we’ll be stuck with marginal quality except for the RARE oldschool guy who still believes in public access for cheap.
When I see FWP piss money away on things like shooting ranges, etc. I can’t believe they couldn’t come up with more $$ for block.
Also, I’m sure something could be done to place limits on the sign-in and go areas. When an entire permission slip book gets used up on the first couple days of archery antelope for a couple thousand acre BMA, it’s a problem.

 

[jmcd]

I talked to my friend. Friends with him since grade school. Kinda of caught him off guard. I can hunt his property anytime I want. It's outfitted. But the shitty stuff is block management. What uh came of the conversation was. This. It's a good program that allows a few to harvest some animals. And allows access to private. Political saying. But in reality fock that shit. Me and him have a bet. He will win. Stacked in his favor. But the public land hunter needs to realize fock the land owners unless they allow hunting. It's there problem. There turning it into profit. Fock the private. My opionon. The majority hunts public. How can private profit off cattle on public lands then fock everybody come hunting season. Stacked deck.

Great attitude….. in one post you’ve perfectly illustrated the growing divide between landowners and hunters. I’m sure tons of ranchers would love having guys with your mentality on their place.

 

[MTTW]

If I somehow came into ownership of a big ranch in MT there is a zero percent chance that MTFWP would have the last word on game management on it. That includes block management of either type. This is not to say that I dislike the block management program, I just would have no part of it.

I have seen large parcels of land near me acquired by FWP and opened to the public, and as stated above 2 years and you can't tell it from the piss pounded public next to it.