Need some HuntTalk wisdom on 5th Wheels

[jpc01101]

We have looked into a cabin on our place in Colorado but are still working with a neighbor to see if she might sell us a little more land and if so that would be where we want to put the cabin. It would be off grid so no HVAC system or anything like that. We have looked into the portable building type cabins that we could move later if we needed to, but I would really prefer a barndo type setup instead.

Wife worries about having to maintain and upkeep a cabin but I guess we have to maintain and upkeep a trailer anyway. We do have some land here in Texas as well that we hunt on so having the trailer lets us essentially take the cabin to either place. The toy hauler feature lets us take the machines as well and that way we don't have to have machines in both places.

Off grid doesn’t mean no HVAC, not anymore. Especially somewhere that gets a lot of sun. You can hook up solar and lithium batteries for fairly reasonable and the new mini-splits are amazingly efficient.

 

[TheTone]

For your atv and utv weight are you going on what the manufacturer weighs or have you actually weighed them? Powersports manufacturers love to have very creative weights in my experience

 

[ismith]

I'd throw a boat on the back of the works too for good measure............

Better yet................. how about a WAKE BOAT!!!!!!!!

 

[npaden]

I found some great real world numbers from a guy with a similar trailer to the one I was originally looking at.

He weighed it empty bringing it home from the dealer and then in 2 different configurations loaded up for camping with different sized toys in the garage. The hitch weight actually went down a tiny bit in one configuration and was the exact same on it loaded as heavy as he could get it as it was empty.

My assumption had been that I would be adding a decent amount of hitch weight when I added the general camping type stuff and the toys in the back would be neutral. Looks like they do actually set these up with a heavy pin weight with the expectation that it will even out once you load stuff in the garage like they are intended.

If the hitch weight stays at the stated number I’m under payload capacity and by a decent amount. That was the only number I was worried about, I’m good on the rest of them by an even better amount.

Another thing that helped me is that the guys hitch weight was spot on with the manufacturer number when empty.

Hitch weight would still be 18% of the gross weight of the trailer so I should be good there too. One of the trailers I was looking at was only 1,000 pounds lighter but was 565 pounds lighter on the hitch weight. The only way they are going to achieve that is putting the axles forward. The hitch weight in that one was going to be 15.5% loaded so I was worried I might end up in an out of balance situation again and don’t want that.

The truck I have right now is 3 years old and has 86,000 miles on it. I figure if it ends up not being enjoyable to pull the 5th wheel and I feel like I need a bigger truck I can upgrade next time I trade it in. I’ll make it sooner rather than later if it seems like I really need more truck. The engine, transmission and brakes are all the same on the 3/4 ton as the 1 ton but the 1 ton does have helper springs and a 12” rear end instead of an 11” rear end. I have helper springs on my 3/4 ton but that doesn’t change the rating any.

Leaning toward the original trailer now that I know that with a typical load including machines in the back that my hitch weight isn’t going to go up very much. I have some buffer there but not the 700 pounds I would need if adding the toys in the back added hitch weight like some were saying.

Thanks for the input pro and con. I feel like I will be under the stated capacity and actually have a little wiggle room. I know I won’t be driving down the interstate with the cruise set on 73 pulling a big 5th wheel like I was with the smaller bumper pull.

Overall length is actually only going to be about 12” more and the height is only 5” more than the bumper pull toy hauler that I had. Having the weight up in the bed instead of back behind the bumper should help the sway also.

 

[wolfpup]

The fifth wheel to bumper pull is not comparable. The weight distribution of the load makes the ride so much different. I would also look good and hard into the hitch setup. I know 100 opinions for 100 different people... but B&W companion with puck systems or the turnover ball are hard to beat. Heavy yes, a pain to move.. yes. Do I feel that will ever be the failure in my system? No. They are beefy. I have towed with it and then towed comparable weight with a gooseneck conversion and they just ride different. Gooseneck is so much rougher. Also with a fifth wheel you won't feel any porpoising as you would in a bumper pull since the contact point to the truck is different.

I own a palomino puma fifth wheel.. I like it but realize that is a cheaper / lighter build. Each manufacturer has pros and cons but I probably wouldn't do it again for what it's worth.

 

[IDFireLass]

I can see a major problem npaden. You're going on numbers and hitch weight which is fine. But you're maxing your pickup out. You'll over work the engine, brakes and transmission.
Your axles bearings will wear out much faster.
Also Toy Haulers are transmission killers. You'll pull the guts out (if used a lot) within a couple of years.
Minimum pickup would be a 3/4 ton pickup. Real world experience here. But do what you want and use what you have. Good luck.

 

[npaden]

I can see a major problem npaden. You're going on numbers and hitch weight which is fine. But you're maxing your pickup out. You'll over work the engine, brakes and transmission.
Your axles bearings will wear out much faster.
Also Toy Haulers are transmission killers. You'll pull the guts out (if used a lot) within a couple of years.
Minimum pickup would be a 3/4 ton pickup. Real world experience here. But do what you want and use what you have. Good luck.

I have a 3/4 ton diesel pickup. Same exact engine, transmission and brakes as a 1 ton pickup.

No way in the world would I consider pulling something like that with a 1/2 ton. As little faith as I have in dealers I don’t think they would let me off the lot trying to pull it with a 1/2 ton.

 

[npaden]

Of course I'm getting nervous about actually pulling the trigger on the nice new one. I can afford it, but sure is a lot of money to spend on something. Got scared a bit reading reviews on some of the new trailers coming off the line with obvious issues they have been having. This one is after all the CoVid stuff but all the big manufacturers seem to be having quality control issues. Paying more than the price of my first house for a trailer seems like a lot.

Went back to Facebook Marketplace and found a few used ones that are shorter and cheaper although they are about the same weight. Not all the bells and whistles, and missing a few of the things I would like to have, but nicer than the one that I wrecked. The used ones I'm looking at only have a 10' garage which is what I had in the one I wrecked, but it is a super tight fit in a 10' garage and if I ever go to resell them a lot of the new Rzrs and stuff are over 10' long and wouldn't fit.

I'm definitely a paralysis by analysis kind of guy on this kind of stuff. My spreadsheet with all the weights and stats and capacities is getting pretty complicated.

 

[wolfpup]

Of course I'm getting nervous about actually pulling the trigger on the nice new one. I can afford it, but sure is a lot of money to spend on something. Got scared a bit reading reviews on some of the new trailers coming off the line with obvious issues they have been having. This one is after all the CoVid stuff but all the big manufacturers seem to be having quality control issues. Paying more than the price of my first house for a trailer seems like a lot.

Your definitely overthinking. If your comfortable with the money aspect, then look at it this way. Buy used your going to have to tweak stuff and fix a few things. Buy new and your going to have to tweak stuff and fix a few things. I like to fix new shiny stuff so I can curse the manufacturer. For some reason that's easier for me than being frustrated with the prior owner's shortcomings. Would you like to inherit the manufacturer problems or prior owners problems that they traded?

 

[Hem]

I don’t understand the need for the fenced porches either but it must be cheap to make them that way because you can’t buy a new toy hauler without one.

Well, the pros is it keeps people's dogs at bay. The con is elevates barking dogs.
Whatever, right?
Good luck with the 5th wheel search. I have no information to offer. I tow a '97 Nash with bumper. Friend of mine got full value from hail damage and sold it to me for 3k. We laugh at being the dog in the campground but it's solid and serves our purpose....only has hail dings in the front.

 

[noharleyyet]

Well, the pros is it keeps people's dogs at bay. The con is elevates barking dogs.
Whatever, right?
Good luck with the 5th wheel search. I have no information to offer. I tow a '97 Nash with bumper. Friend of mine got full value from hail damage and sold it to me for 3k. We laugh at being the dog in the campground but it's solid and serves our purpose....only has hail dings in the front.

 

[Hem]

View attachment 336589

Ha...not my intention, but sure, why not be snooty about making due with less. FYI, have never used the hot water, heater, or shower. Just have to grease your elbows to use the crapper.

 

[noharleyyet]

Ha...not my intention, but sure, why not be snooty about making due with less. FYI, have never used the hot water, heater, or shower. Just have to grease your elbows to use the crapper.

I'm always rubbernecking RV rigs on road trips...love op's & the freedom they imbue. Had a 23' Jayco Bumper Pull on a deer lease for a couple of years...the seller towed and set it for me and I sold to a fellow lessee when I dropped off the lease...so I didn't pull it any. Spent a lot of time and dough repairing issues...but did thoroughly enjoy & sated any curiosity to own one again

 

[Hem]

I'm always rubbernecking RV rigs on road trips...love op's & the freedom they imbue. Had a 23' Jayco Bumper Pull on a deer lease for a couple of years...the seller towed and set it for me and I sold to a fellow lessee when I dropped off the lease...so I didn't pull it any. Spent a lot of time and dough repairing issues...but did thoroughly enjoy & sated any curiosity to own one again

We use our camper sparingly. I might better reseal the roof, make it last another ten years.

 

[npaden]

Well, looks like I'm going to be buying a used one. A 2018 Forest River XLR Nitro 29DK5.

https://www.jdpower.com/rvs/2018/xlr-by-forest-river/m-29dk5/6575611/specs

Found one that checked all the boxes about 3 hours away and made the guy a lowball offer telling him that the new ones are just too heavily discounted to buy a used one unless it was heavily discounted also and the guy said that he didn't want to go any lower but could see that the market is a buyers market right now so he would take it.

I'm going to go look at it next Wednesday in person and if it checks out as advertised it looks like I will be the owner a 5th wheel. One nice thing is that it is 3' shorter length than the one I've been looking at but that's also a con. That 3' is all in the garage area so I'm back to a 10' garage which I can make work but it makes things very tight. I guess for the nearly 50% less in price I can deal with the garage being tight. The one I wrecked had a 9'9" garage so at least this is a tiny bit bigger than that.

It is "only" 12'10" tall which is 5" shorter than the other one I was looking at so that is also a positive. My old trailer was 12'2" tall so this one is 8" taller than the old bumper pull so really that seems like not a big deal. I had to watch for low hanging branches on the bumper pull one I had and will need to continue to.

Dry weight is 650 pounds less than the new one so that is another positive. Empty hitch weight is 85 pounds more but should still be okay as long as I'm not running it full of stuff in the front with nothing in the back garage.

Has most of the bells and whistles, one drawback is that it only has a 12 volt fridge and not a dual AC/Propane fridge, so I guess I will need to add some solar panels and a bigger battery to it.

In some ways I'm relieved to not be buying a new one because this way if I end up scratching it or putting a dent in it I won't feel too badly.

Thanks again for the input and I'll update this on whatever I end up doing.

 

[npaden]

Evidently it is the near perfect time to buy a 5th wheel toyhauler. The dealer on the new one I was looking at from the start called and asked where I was at and I told them I was strongly leaning toward buying the used one I just posted about above and they asked if there was anything they could do to get me to buy the new one. I told them if they would come down to an even $50,000 that I would buy it. They said they couldn't go that low without corporate approval as they would actually be selling it for less than they paid for it but they would check and get back with me. They called back about 15 minutes later and said it was a deal. The MSRP on it was $120k plus a $3k destination charge so ended up getting it for $73,000 off that, nearly a 60% discount.

I wasn't expecting them to accept my offer so I had to decide if I really wanted it or not pretty quickly and ended up giving them a refundable deposit on it over the phone.

Went down there Saturday to inspect it before fully committing to the deal and it checked out. Fit and finish isn't perfect but actually a little better than I was expecting for a mass produced trailer. I'm sure I'll find a few things to deal with but pretty happy about it overall. After pretty much talking myself into the used one, I kind of had to talk myself back into the new one but I think it is going to be okay. The 13' garage area really is going to make that part nice fitting the toys in and having a warranty for a bit is going to be nice as well. I did get insurance on it. Just over $1,500 per year.

Tried to go through the whole inspection checklist I found online but didn’t get everything checked off. Ran out of time and patience. Found a few minor items that they corrected.

First time towing a 5th wheel. Felt a little different with the weight in the bed but pulled well. Kind of sorted through the way it pulled at different speeds and decided on 69 as my personal speed limit on it. I'm sure that personal speed limit will need to be adjusted downward if I'm pulling it in windy conditions or on rougher roads. Pulling it home just under 500 miles and 3,000' of elevation gain it got 7.9 mpg. Pulling my old trailer to Montana and back in June it was 8.1 mpg round trip so not much difference. This was essentially empty but I think wind resistance is going to be the main factor in fuel mileage on these.



Found a new on pallet Onan 7000 on Facebook marketplace that was pretty much on the way for just $200 more than the cheapest I have found for a 5500 online, so I picked it up on the way down there. Just under 500 miles each way total drive.

Using an Anderson Ultimate Hitch Gen 3. Clearance seems good. I didn’t try to get to 90 degrees on the turn but it still had quite a bit of room at this angle. I was by myself so just didn't want to be jumping in and out of the truck to check it every few inches.



A little more squat than I would prefer. Have a set of Timbrens on the way. Probably should just go straight to air bags. I will be pulling it decent mileage but only using it around 3 or 4 weeks a year tops so ride comfort when loaded isn't as big of a priority as just reducing squat. I'm good on payload capacity, just don't like the squat. Hoping to gain about an inch or inch and a half. Trailer sits pretty level and has 7" of clearance between the top of the bed and the bottom of the trailer so that all seems good.


My RV cover is too small. Trying to sort out if I can get another segment added to it. Sure glad I went with 16' wide because with slide outs on both sides it clears about 8" on one side and 18" on the other with it right in the middle. 14' wide would have been too narrow.



Overall I thought it was in pretty good shape for sitting on the lot for 2 years. One nice surprise is it had a 200 watt solar panel already hooked up and working. The listing said 20 watt so I figured it was some kind of a battery tender type thing but it is a 6’ x 3’ panel up there.



Probably need to wash the roof soon.

Oh well, pretty excited still. Felt like I got a very good deal on it.

 

[noharleyyet]

Nice upgrade Nathan...

 

[Gr8bawana]

Congrats on your new toy hauler!

 

[ashersdad]

Looks very nice and sounds like you got a great deal!

 

[Southern Elk]

Man, there’s some crazy markups on those things. There’s no way they lost money on it.