Need some HuntTalk wisdom on 5th Wheels

[mevertsen]

Does a weight that heavy require a special license in Texas? It does here in NV. (Just curious)

That aside, the idea of being that close to max after what you just went though seems foolish to me.

I second the idea of a cabin on your places. Obviously you have a lot of wants (no tent, no hotels, etc), but it seems the need to keep you and your family and the motoring public safe should be priority, even if that cost more (bigger truck, cabin and enclosed trailer, smaller trailer etc,), or you have to truly evaluate your wants and do you really need them.

A lot of crashes I saw in my career were because people got careless, were truly in over their head with the situation, or were pushing limits. Being with 5 percent max of your towing and pin capacities seems careless to me for a long trip like your talking, will wear out your stuff faster and, and increase the odds of something going wrong again.

 

[Gr8bawana]

One other thing to consider about a 5th wheel is the weight of the hitch needed to tow it. Mine weight about 200lbs and that counts against your payload as well.
I can only speak from my own experience. We don't have a toy hauler but we do have a 40' Keystone Cougar 5th wheel.
Our 80 gallon fresh water tank is located at the rear of the trailer so I think that helps with the pin weight. Gray and black tanks are mid point.
After towing our 25' travel trailer since 2004 I can tell you the 5er does indeed tow smoother and easier even though it weighs about 7k lbs more. It is definitely not well suited for off-road travel and you have to keep in mind the nearly 13' height. The leveling jacks hang down quite low and the rear end of the trailer is so far behind the axles it tends to drag pretty easily. Tight turns are pretty much impossible.

It has an advertised pin weight of 1980 lbs, a dry weight of 11,7860 and a GCWR of 13,898 lbs.
Tow vehicle is a 2017 Ram 2500 Cummins and it is a towing beast. It has a tow rating of just over 17,200 lbs. and payload of 2380 lbs. RAWR of 6500 lbs.
I've never taken the combo to the scales so I don't know my exact weights and that's ok with me. Truck sits just level with the trailer attached.
The truck tows the 5er very well. It feels very stable going down the highway.
As someone else mentioned I think very few rv accidents are caused by overloaded tow vehicles.
Good luck with your search for a new trailer.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Hold the fluff...and towing shit.

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Get a 20ft tilt trailer, stack the camp up front under tarps or build a box, then add toys to the back.

Slick, low profile (wind eats campers north of Denver) and easy to set up without the hassle of black water tanks, etc.

 

[elkduds]

I would stay in the best hotel/lodge/vrbo available...often.

Or rent a few and find out what works best w your truck. You don't have to store, winterize, maintain or pay depreciation on rented RVs.

 

[CT_SD]

My camper journey started with a 33’ bumper pull behind a ford excursion diesel. Plenty of truck and power but wasn’t fun on interstates. Upgraded to a 33’ 5th wheel behind a 2013 Ram dually. This was a great combo until a 65+mph gust took the camper. Next got a 43’ 5th wheel-had it for just over year. 5th wheels pull way better than bumper. We got rid of our camper and started renting houses-easier with 6 of us and hated being crammed into campgrounds. With an out of state property I’d probably opt for a 5th wheel.

 

[npaden]

Get a 20ft tilt trailer, stack the camp up front under tarps or build a box, then add toys to the back.

Slick, low profile (wind eats campers north of Denver) and easy to set up without the hassle of black water tanks, etc.

I've seen a few where they just take a 20' camper remove the axles and throw it on a 40' triple axle gooseneck. That would allow you to haul pretty much whatever you wanted and not have to follow the CDL rules since it would be considered an RV. I could buy an excavator and throw it on the back, upgrade my tow vehicle to a semi and I would be all set.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I've seen a few where they just take a 20' camper remove the axles and throw it on a 40' triple axle gooseneck. That would allow you to haul pretty much whatever you wanted and not have to follow the CDL rules since it would be considered an RV. I could buy an excavator and throw it on the back, upgrade my tow vehicle to a semi and I would be all set.

Or, and I know this sounds crazy: Don't take a 3 bedroom house with you camping.

 

[npaden]

Here's one that is well within my payload capacity and $10,000 cheaper.

New 2022 Palomino Puma Unleashed 383DSS Toy Hauler Fifth Wheel

Palomino Puma Unleashed toy hauler 383DSS highlights: 7' 3" Spring-Assist Ramp Door U-Shaped Dinette Large Pantry Queen Bed Bath and a Half Pass-Through Storage You're going to love camping in this...

www.route66rvs.com

Not nearly as nice but if it was laying on the side of the road how nice it was to start doesn't really matter.

It's hitch weight is only 1,895 so way within my trucks payload capacity of 3,287. Biggest negative to it is that it only has 3,137 cargo carrying capacity. By the time I throw the machines in the back that drops it down to 1,600 pounds available, fill it up with 900 pounds of fuel and water and that leaves only 700 pounds for everything else. I guess I could probably manage that.

I would actually have enough payload capacity left on the truck I could still carry some heavy stuff in the bed.

Just need to figure out where people would sleep while we are on the road since I don't want to have to buy a hotel room like BuzzH does. Seems it would be better to rent them to me but evidently Buzz buys them.

 

[406dn]

Here's one that is well within my payload capacity and $10,000 cheaper.

New 2022 Palomino Puma Unleashed 383DSS Toy Hauler Fifth Wheel

Palomino Puma Unleashed toy hauler 383DSS highlights: 7' 3" Spring-Assist Ramp Door U-Shaped Dinette Large Pantry Queen Bed Bath and a Half Pass-Through Storage You're going to love camping in this...

www.route66rvs.com

Not nearly as nice but if it was laying on the side of the road how nice it was to start doesn't really matter.

It's hitch weight is only 1,895 so way within my trucks payload capacity of 3,287. Biggest negative to it is that it only has 3,137 cargo carrying capacity. By the time I throw the machines in the back that drops it down to 1,600 pounds available, fill it up with 900 pounds of fuel and water and that leaves only 700 pounds for everything else. I guess I could probably manage that.

I would actually have enough payload capacity left on the truck I could still carry some heavy stuff in the bed.

Just need to figure out where people would sleep while we are on the road since I don't want to have to buy a hotel room like BuzzH does. Seems it would be better to rent them to me but evidently Buzz buys them.

When I look at the photos of that toy hauler, it gives me the weeby jeebies. The axles are so far forward, that if you put a heavy toy in the back, you are going to reduce the pin weight quite a bit.

I am more accustomed to seeing friend's live-in quarters horse trailers. Those have the axles set more or less right under the horses. My bumper pull trailers have the axles set well back, so that the horses are over the axles.

I do not like weight behind the axles.

 

[elkantlers]

I've had a 5th wheel for quite a while and (knock on wood) have never had any issues. Mine is not a toy hauler, it's 32'. I have the larger 235/85R16 tires that are 14 ply. I welded a hitch on the back myself and used heavy duty materials. I tow a couple ATV's on a trailer, and I also have a 17' Crestliner boat that I pull around. I would never go back to a bumper pull after having a 5th wheel.

My truck is a 2019 GMC 2500HD Diesel, which I think is pretty similar to yours. It has plenty of power to tow my stuff faster than I should, so I am very conscience about keeping it safe. We have some elk tags in Wyoming this year and I will be towing this setup there in October.

If you decide to go with a 5th wheel I have no doubt you will be glad you did.

One other note. I have an Anderson Hitch that's rated for 24,000lbs. It attaches to my B&W turn over ball. It's all aluminum and I can lift it in and out of the truck easily.

 

[mmazour]

npaden - good on ya and good reply. Some of the replies were why i didn't post weights. And yes, some scary stuff can happen towing, especially as you can attest to. And some of it is in our control and some of it not. Adjusting to conditions is a lot of it though. Be those conditions of your set up, the wind, the weather or the road surface. Can tell you are doing the research and that is important. If the weights do work out, for your occasional use, would highly recommend the 5th wheel set up. And if you are near the weights, consider adding air bags - way improved stability.

 

[Addicting]

We have looked into a cabin on our place in Colorado but are still working with a neighbor to see if she might sell us a little more land and if so that would be where we want to put the cabin. It would be off grid so no HVAC system or anything like that. We have looked into the portable building type cabins that we could move later if we needed to, but I would really prefer a barndo type setup instead.

Wife worries about having to maintain and upkeep a cabin but I guess we have to maintain and upkeep a trailer anyway. We do have some land here in Texas as well that we hunt on so having the trailer lets us essentially take the cabin to either place. The toy hauler feature lets us take the machines as well and that way we don't have to have machines in both places.

Buy a cabin on skids. Just move it to where you want to stay if you score the other property.

 

[npaden]

When I look at the photos of that toy hauler, it gives me the weeby jeebies. The axles are so far forward, that if you put a heavy toy in the back, you are going to reduce the pin weight quite a bit.

I am more accustomed to seeing friend's live-in quarters horse trailers. Those have the axles set more or less right under the horses. My bumper pull trailers have the axles set well back, so that the horses are over the axles.

I do not like weight behind the axles.

All of the 5th wheel toy haulers have the garages behind the axles. That one seems to have a little more hanging out there than the others, probably the reason for the lower hitch weight. It has a hitch weight of 17% of the empty weight of the trailer and most of the others are 20% or more. The original one I was/am looking at is right at 20%.

The empty weight is 1,546 pounds more on the original one that I'm so tempted to buy which is 14% more than the one I just linked, but the hitch weight is 565 pounds more which is 30% more. I would imagine that this would result in a more stable towing experience with the extra weight on the truck instead of hanging off behind the axles of the trailer.

Both trailers are well within the 18,500 towing capacity of the truck, it is just the payload capacity that gets tight with the first one.

Kind of one of those head scratchers. I would be much closer to the payload capacity of my truck with the heavy hitch weight on the first trailer, but it would probably end up towing better than the one with the lighter hitch weight would.

Continuing to research and thinking this through.

 

[ismith]

I would just max everything out again and hope for the best.

FYI, I watched a 5th wheel RV ripped right off the hitch near Chugwater in a pretty normal (for Wyoming) broadside wind. RV hit I-25 and slid into the median, looked just like your recent wreck, a total yard sale.

I'd throw a boat on the back of the works too for good measure............

 

[CT_SD]

Another option would be a living quarters horse trailer with a plain stock option in the back. Gooseneck hitch, probably triple axle for what you need, can get a rear ramp for loading toys. Tow great with low center of gravity and built better than campers. Very customizable. Downside is cost. Many options for companies-one example below.

https://smctrailers.com/laramie-stock-trailers/

 

[Hem]

I was aghast at the dumb chits at Georgetown with outside fenced porches on the back of their campers.WTF?
Couldn't tell if they were from Texas.

 

[npaden]

I've had a 5th wheel for quite a while and (knock on wood) have never had any issues. Mine is not a toy hauler, it's 32'. I have the larger 235/85R16 tires that are 14 ply. I welded a hitch on the back myself and used heavy duty materials. I tow a couple ATV's on a trailer, and I also have a 17' Crestliner boat that I pull around. I would never go back to a bumper pull after having a 5th wheel.

My truck is a 2019 GMC 2500HD Diesel, which I think is pretty similar to yours. It has plenty of power to tow my stuff faster than I should, so I am very conscience about keeping it safe. We have some elk tags in Wyoming this year and I will be towing this setup there in October.

If you decide to go with a 5th wheel I have no doubt you will be glad you did.

One other note. I have an Anderson Hitch that's rated for 24,000lbs. It attaches to my B&W turn over ball. It's all aluminum and I can lift it in and out of the truck easily.

View attachment 336228

I’m looking at either the Anderson hitch or the Pullrite hitch that’s basically the same concept.

You know those triples with a boat or ATV trailer on the back look sketchy but not sure I can ever remember one of those setups turned upside down on the side of the road.

Technically something like that would solve my payload capacity issues but not sure whether I would enjoy pulling something like that down the interstate.

 

[npaden]

I was aghast at the dumb chits at Georgetown with outside fenced porches on the back of their campers.WTF?
Couldn't tell if they were from Texas.

I don’t understand the need for the fenced porches either but it must be cheap to make them that way because you can’t buy a new toy hauler without one.

 

[elkantlers]

You know those triples with a boat or ATV trailer on the back look sketchy but not sure I can ever remember one of those setups turned upside down on the side of the road.

They really are the way to go. I've pulled several different combinations and they just come right along, no issues. You just have to be aware when you are turning and maneuvering through traffic or pulling into fuel up.

 

[Dan O]

I've had a 5th wheel since 1992. The first one was a Jayco 29 foot with no slides. Had it for 25years and towed it with 3/4 tons and several 1-ton diesels. Then in 2017 we ordered a new Jayco again a 29 foot with 3 slides. This one has a cold weather package supposedly good to 0 degrees without wind. I've been pulling this one with a 2013 F250 crew cab swb with a gas 6.2. The trailer has a factory tow hitch rated at 3K with a flat 4 connection. I've towed this rig to Raton N.M. 2x's from Seeley Lake Mt. About 1100 miles one way. The pickup is about maxed out power wise but everything else works as needed. One thing with a 5th wheel is when you're on uneven ground the bed of the truck can contact the trailer when the angle gets to steep. Learned this the hard way punching a hole in the 92 trailer. Repaired it with 100mph duct tape it worked great. I've only pulled bumper hitch 4 horse trailer and snowmobile trailers, so my experience is limited. I would recommend you go with the 5th wheel and learn how to load it correctly.