ND Private Land No Trespass Bill SB2315

[300stw]

lets think back 10 years ago before any gps was owned that had land ownership on it. how did the thousands of hunters navigate land parcels,,,, a map, watching fence lines, and watching posted signs and doing their best,

why should it be a requirement for every sportsmen to own a gps with a landowner chip,,,,my 80 yr old dad cannot understand or figure out the one I gave him to know where he can be, he can watch for signs and act accordingly,,,,
why is it so hard for landowners in any state to be responsible to post there land legally so everyone knows what is accessible or not, in a few states now, there is many acres unposted, that are public, next to private, unknowing sportsmen , like my dad, don't use this land, many times that's a bonus for the landowner,,,,

every ranch , farm ect I have been involved with in any way, routinely checks every fence they have, in the midst of the fence checking how hard is it to paint a post orange every 660ft or so,,,
lets every person know where they can or cant be,

if I don't want people on the land I own in a couple states I post it, the only areas that are posted are near the buildings or where livestock is,,,
how many landowners are citing kids for trespassing on their lawns in town,, if not why, its still trespassing,,,,

 

[belshawelk]

I get your points but, it’s not always possible to put signs on private property where woods are very thick. My issue is not accidental trespass, my issue is arrogance and anger against those of us who own private land. Many feel we have no bright to own it or respect us.

 

[Muskeez]

I received 3 replies after writing to all of the above email addresses. One simply stated he will be voting YES. One gal seemed to dance around the issue. Another, Representative Gretchen Dobervich, wrote a very nice reply and included the written version of the part of the bill that passed yesterday. I could copy and paste it here but it is quite lengthy and in my opinion is a bunch of legal jargon, blah, blah, blah. I read it as basically working on how to deal with those that trespass on lands that ARE posted. If anyone is interested and good at reading these types of things I would be glad to email the response to you if you send me a PM.

 

[JLS]

I get your points but, it’s not always possible to put signs on private property where woods are very thick. My issue is not accidental trespass, my issue is arrogance and anger against those of us who own private land. Many feel we have no bright to own it or respect us.

Fair perspective.

It appears you are able to use common sense and some grace in approaching the issue.

In the alternative, a neighbor of antlerradar’s, and former state senator, refused to post some portions of his land where a 1/4 mile wide BLM land bridge cut through his land. I don’t know if he has since. I have little doubt he was trying to make life as difficult as he could for hunters.

 

[TimeOnTarget]

lets think back 10 years ago before any gps was owned that had land ownership on it. how did the thousands of hunters navigate land parcels,,,, a map, watching fence lines, and watching posted signs and doing their best,

why should it be a requirement for every sportsmen to own a gps with a landowner chip,,,,my 80 yr old dad cannot understand or figure out the one I gave him to know where he can be, he can watch for signs and act accordingly,,,,
why is it so hard for landowners in any state to be responsible to post there land legally so everyone knows what is accessible or not, in a few states now, there is many acres unposted, that are public, next to private, unknowing sportsmen , like my dad, don't use this land, many times that's a bonus for the landowner,,,,

every ranch , farm ect I have been involved with in any way, routinely checks every fence they have, in the midst of the fence checking how hard is it to paint a post orange every 660ft or so,,,
lets every person know where they can or cant be,

if I don't want people on the land I own in a couple states I post it, the only areas that are posted are near the buildings or where livestock is,,,
how many landowners are citing kids for trespassing on their lawns in town,, if not why, its still trespassing,,,,

Coming from a state that does not require posting of land, i see the issue quite opposite of you.

I see it as the hunter's burden to know where he/she are at all times. This burden should not be put on anyone but the individual using the land and certainly not the landowner.

 

[300stw]

then lets change tresspassing laws, if your caught tresspassing on posted ground. 1000.00 fine. no questions asked, caught on unposted land 10.00 fine,,

 

[Muskeez]

The way that I read this portion of the bill that passed yesterday, and from what Ms. Dobervich has shared with me, that is basically what will happen. The average Joe Hunter will likely see no change if he/she follows the laws of the past of not hunting on any posted lands. Those that still trespass on posted lands will be dealt with more severely. Outfitters/guides may be excluded and need to ask permission to make money on any and all lands (again, this is just how I read it). This bill still needs to go to the senate and may have more changes made to it before being passed IF it gets passed. I have no skin in this game as I have never hunted ND but this sure interests me and I hope to hunt there someday.

 

[NDGuy]

The way that I read this portion of the bill that passed yesterday, and from what Ms. Dobervich has shared with me, that is basically what will happen. The average Joe Hunter will likely see no change if he/she follows the laws of the past of not hunting on any posted lands. Those that still trespass on posted lands will be dealt with more severely. Outfitters/guides may be excluded and need to ask permission to make money on any and all lands (again, this is just how I read it). This bill still needs to go to the senate and may have more changes made to it before being passed IF it gets passed. I have no skin in this game as I have never hunted ND but this sure interests me and I hope to hunt there someday.

Yes that is basically what happened we dodged the bullet for now.

 

[NDGuy]

I am sure it will eventually pass. Just sad we are going to get left with 7% accessible land to hunt outside of being in the good graces of the private land owners.

Personally I will be fine as I have made great friends with a lot of farmers. But I feel bad for newcomers and those that are traveling to the state and have to go pound on doors and call people. I also feel bad for the landowners who don't care a shit and that's why they leave a lot unposted so they don't get bothered. They won't have the choice now outside of enrolling in programs.

Maybe we can make green signs for farmers that say open to hunting waterfowl, pheasants etc but no deer.

 

[JLS]

If a landowner doesn’t care, then no tickets will be issued. Trespassing is normally only charged per the victim (landowners) request. No complaint, no crime.

 

[Muskeez]

True JLS, but the hunters won't know which lands are owned by "don't care" landowners, so the landowners will be getting a TON of phone calls and door bells rang. My daughter hunts waterfowl in E and NE South Dakota. She tells me all the time how many farmers tell her that they had 5 calls that day alone, what a PIA! If I owned land and didn't care who hunted it I would put up signs that said, "go get em, don't bother me" and if I owned land and didn't want to let others hunt it I would put up signs that said "NO Trespass and Don't even ask, the answer is NO".

 

[JLS]

I agree, I’d put up signs either way too.

 

[belshawelk]

I think one issue is the land out where you guys are at is very easy to sign. Mine consists of canyons that go from 2500' to 4500' with rock outcroppings, very very heavy forested with downed tress all the time. Its impossible to even keep a fence up with the elk and deer tearing it down let alone keep signs on them. I wont even talk about what wild horses do. Our maps in Oregon are pretty good showing public an private lands. Yes it can be off a couple hundred yards but not acres.

I think we all have good points as areas are very different.

 

[Flatrock]

I heard from a buddy that ND G&F didn’t do sportsmen any favors on the bill.

For pheasants you are better off somewhere else anyways. Their numbers out in the Mott area are decimated in comparison to what they once were. A whopping 1% of deer tags to NR’s, and they give average Joe residents the shaft on elk tags while absolutely catering to landowners on elk.

I grew up there, had some great times and saw populations of game almost out of control some years then a fraction of what they were years later. With the loss of CRP, low amounts public land, high percentage of posted land, harsh winters, springs that are too wet or too dry; it is a place that shouldn’t be on the top of your list to hunt.

Couldn't have said it better. No opportunities at all in this state. Terrible, terrible hunting here. Go to Montana instead.

 

[Labman]

Couldn't have said it better. No opportunities at all in this state. Terrible, terrible hunting here. Go to Montana instead.

Not saying it is a wasteland, void of any game, but it is a shadow of what it once was. When 10 guys and 3 dogs go to Mott 2016 and shoot 120 rooties in 5 days then in 2018 can’t scrape up more than 20 in a week there is a problem. When there used to be over 150k deer licenses and now there is around 50k, it speaks for itself. Sheep tags, from 8 to 3-4. The waterfowl hunting is phenomenal, but the upland and big game hunting is a fraction of what it was years ago.

 

[Flatrock]

Not saying it is a wasteland, void of any game, but it is a shadow of what it once was. When 10 guys and 3 dogs go to Mott 2016 and shoot 120 rooties in 5 days then in 2018 can’t scrape up more than 20 in a week there is a problem. When there used to be over 150k deer licenses and now there is around 50k, it speaks for itself. Sheep tags, from 8 to 3-4. The waterfowl hunting is phenomenal, but the upland and big game hunting is a fraction of what it was years ago.

I've heard that a few times about Mott. Not sure what is going on down there but the rest of the state is doing just fine. I wasn't out a lot but saw plenty of pheasants last year.

 

[NDGuy]

I've heard that a few times about Mott. Not sure what is going on down there but the rest of the state is doing just fine. I wasn't out a lot but saw plenty of pheasants last year.

Pheasant numbers are really down in my areas. Especially anything public...ha

 

[EdP]

This is an interesting read. As an easterner with a small piece of huntable land (especially compared to a western ranch) the concept of free public access to private land is totally foreign. In reading thru the posts I was continually wondering "what do the ND landowners think?" They are the folks who should really be making the decision on the proposed change, not the hunters that benefit from it, especially out of state hunters. Finally reading the landowner responses it became apparent that ND has a system that works for everybody. As long as it continues to work in the landowner's benefit, it should remain. Isn't that the purpose of government, to serve the interests of the people they represent? Perhaps at some point in the future the situation will change and the landowners will not want to be required to post to prevent public access. If so, that is the time to make a change.

 

[NDGuy]

This is an interesting read. As an easterner with a small piece of huntable land (especially compared to a western ranch) the concept of free public access to private land is totally foreign. In reading thru the posts I was continually wondering "what do the ND landowners think?" They are the folks who should really be making the decision on the proposed change, not the hunters that benefit from it, especially out of state hunters. Finally reading the landowner responses it became apparent that ND has a system that works for everybody. As long as it continues to work in the landowner's benefit, it should remain. Isn't that the purpose of government, to serve the interests of the people they represent? Perhaps at some point in the future the situation will change and the landowners will not want to be required to post to prevent public access. If so, that is the time to make a change.

The biggest proponents of this bill were oil guys and ranchers that had to deal with the Dakota Pipeline BS. Understandable I just take issue that was a one off crisis and is now over with. The system works as is for most people.

I would take zero issue with all private land turning to "no tresspassing" if we had more than 7% public land available. But that isn't the case and I haven't seen jack sh%$ to convince me it's going to start reversing so I take it personally. They can call me entitled or whatever they want, it's my opinion and it does affect me and future generations of sportsmen and women.

I take any legislation prohibiting hunting rights and access issues seriously to heart. Because from what I have seen, everything is slowly starting to be whittled away until there will be nothing left.

 

[Schism]

The biggest proponents of this bill were oil guys and ranchers that had to deal with the Dakota Pipeline BS. Understandable I just take issue that was a one off crisis and is now over with. The system works as is for most people.

I would take zero issue with all private land turning to "no tresspassing" if we had more than 7% public land available. But that isn't the case and I haven't seen jack sh%$ to convince me it's going to start reversing so I take it personally. They can call me entitled or whatever they want, it's my opinion and it does affect me and future generations of sportsmen and women.

I take any legislation prohibiting hunting rights and access issues seriously to heart. Because from what I have seen, everything is slowly starting to be whittled away until there will be nothing left.

This pretty much sums up my sentiments on the issue. Some of the groups pushing for the passage of SB2315 also lobby to sell all state trust lands and have prevented conservation organizations from purchasing and owning private land in the state of North Dakota. Unfortunately any sort of compromise on these issues doesn't appear to be feasible with the current political climate.