ND Game and Fish coming under fire for CWD Management

[wct12]

So is it your dad? Uncle? This is too good.

Would be my father yep.

 

[wct12]

So is it your dad? Uncle? This is too good.

Unless your talking the CWD page. Thats neither of us

 

[BlakeA]

Would be my father yep.

 

[CraneMan]

Being from North Dakota, I feel I must apologize to all HT'ers for this circular bloviation. Please don't judge us based off wct12's posts. Some of us in the state are actually open minded and understand straight line logic. His father is famous for these same tactics and has wrecked many good discussions with similar behavior until he gets banned from the sites. It has been a tactic that the commercializers of ND's resources have used for many many years. IF this is his son actually posting, it's a little scary to think that this behavior might be hereditary.

 

[wct12]

Being from North Dakota, I feel I must apologize to all HT'ers for this circular bloviation. Please don't judge us based off wct12's posts. Some of us in the state are actually open minded and understand straight line logic. His father is famous for these same tactics and has wrecked many good discussions with similar behavior until he gets banned from the sites. It has been a tactic that the commercializers of ND's resources have used for many many years. IF this is his son actually posting, it's a little scary to think that this behavior might be hereditary.

Hi it's me, his son.. Commercializers of North Dakotas resources?.. Do you think we are guides or?

He also got banned from nodakangler because of speaking in favor of the land owner side of HB 2315.. Which was a bill that he didn't support before amendments but got tore apart from sportsmen for his stance on it.

Straight line logic? Even people in opposition have stated there is nothing set in stone and straight forward when discussing CWD

 

[DGND]

Sytes posted this below December 24th. Clip. In October USDA granted over $9 million towards CWD. North Dakota Game and Fish was granted $96,300 for Shifting behaviors to lower the risk of CWD; a multi-media approach. This is Human Dimensions or the study of sportsmens behaviors and public perceptions.

Below that is Wisconsin, the State where Dr. Bryan Richards hails from, receiving $150,000 for Deepening Partnerships; Expanding access: Reducing CWD Transmission Risks by Supporting Proper Carcass Disposal.

 

[DGND]

This is Wisconsin Proper Carcass Disposal.

 

[wct12]

Sytes posted this below December 24th. Clip. In October USDA granted over $9 million towards CWD. North Dakota Game and Fish was granted $96,300 for Shifting behaviors to lower the risk of CWD; a multi-media approach. This is Human Dimensions or the study of sportsmens behaviors and public perceptions.

Below that is Wisconsin, the State where Dr. Bryan Richards hails from, receiving $150,000 for Deepening Partnerships; Expanding access: Reducing CWD Transmission Risks by Supporting Proper Carcass Disposal.

View attachment 263863

Our own senator Hoeven was pushing for this.. Wonder what the next money bump up will be for the game..I said it earlier in this thread. CWD is about the money.. And "shifting behaviors" such as baiting restrictions or is all that money for their pickup decals?? Follow the money, reach the agenda.

 

[Candiru]

As far as kids go, I see some of the "youth hunts" and it makes me feel uneasy. I don't think the kids are even old enough to understand what they are doing and are really nothing but "trigger pullers". Then there is the obligatory, "They're hooked for life.".

 

[MNElkNut]

Is it better to not take federal funding to help combat CWD? I get the sense that "follow the money" is another sound bite with no substance behind it.

 

[NDGuy]

Is it better to not take federal funding to help combat CWD? I get the sense that "follow the money" is another sound bite with no substance behind it.

acting like 100k is a lot of money, let alone that the G&F put it in their checking accounts or something lol

 

[wct12]

The game and fish used that money for this..I get 100,000 isn't a lot of money I the scheme of a government agency, but this is what it went to.. Talk about a waste of money. Decals are so productive at slowing the spread

 

[SAJ-99]

This is Wisconsin Proper Carcass Disposal.

View attachment 263864

You can ask a person to properly dispose of the carcass, but a jackass is going to be a jackass. Therein lies the problem.

 

[wct12]

Still no easy way to clean up saving that Excel to a PDF so a screenshot will have to do.. This is tag numbers and deer harvested numbers.. Tag numbers are dependent on deer population (higher tag numbers = higher populations). The ND Game and Fishes management is a population that can support 75,000 tags is sustainable. In the few years prior to CWD being discovered in Nodak the number of tags issued is almost double the tag numbers issued for what the game and claim as a sustainable population. Over population is a major factor in disease transference. Did the mismanagement of deer herd numbers to what is considered double the sustainable population have anything to do with CWD showing up in this state, or is that just a coincidence..

Since everyone wants links.. if you open the PDF attachment of my testimony there are links for all of the data points that I use in there that take you either directly to the Game and Fishes website, or to an article that was ran in a paper that got their data straight from the game and fish department. (it's harder to find links directly to the game and fishes numbers from more then just a couple years ago).

If the data that is provided there isn't good enough, it has all come directly from the game and fish department, including the excel spreadsheet that was screenshot and then posted. I haven't made any numbers up.. there has been no manipulation.. just straight data released by the game and fish themselves.

 

[SAJ-99]

Did the mismanagement of deer herd numbers to what is considered double the sustainable population have anything to do with CWD showing up in this state, or is that just a coincidence..

Retyping it in Excel makes it easier to read but doesn't count as analysis. I don't know that we should say there was mismanagement. That is your opinion. It looks like they issued a lot more tags (3x in '07 vs '16) and harvest was much higher (3.6x), so I'm not sure where the mismanagement comes in. That said, there was also a lot more CRP (2.1x), which we can assume is better habitat for deer than a corn or soybean or wheat field. More habitat = higher sustainable population? That number isn't in there either. The short answer to the question did higher deer numbers lead to CWD = No, it was coming anyway. Did higher deer number speed up the spread? Maybe, no way to prove or disprove that. If deer are the mode of transmission, we can assume if ND deer numbers were close to zero you could be surprised to see CWD.

 

[CraneMan]

Hi it's me, his son.. Commercializers of North Dakotas resources?.. Do you think we are guides or?

He also got banned from nodakangler because of speaking in favor of the land owner side of HB 2315.. Which was a bill that he didn't support before amendments but got tore apart from sportsmen for his stance on it.

Straight line logic? Even people in opposition have stated there is nothing set in stone and straight forward when discussing CWD

Not guides, but to me, monetizing elk to be shot in pens is commercialization (and also a spreading vector for CWD). Interesting that you, and now DGND posting here, are both involved (have been) with it and that your "expert" non-science testimony on this bill comes from a deer farm in Wisconsin that charges the "hunt" by the inches of antler and had 148 CWD positive deer recently since their last report. Hmmmmmmmm....

What about the several other sites in North Dakota and elsewhere that your father got banned from?

As to your question about logic, all I can tell you is that for those who understand, no explanation is necessary, and for those who don't, none is possible. It's up to you to choose or prove which tent you sleep in.

I'm done with adding perspective and facts to your obfuscation, so carry on and have a nice day.

 

[wct12]

Not guides, but to me, monetizing elk to be shot in pens is commercialization (and also a spreading vector for CWD). Interesting that you, and now DGND posting here, are both involved (have been) with it and that your "expert" non-science testimony on this bill comes from a deer farm in Wisconsin that charges the "hunt" by the inches of antler and had 148 CWD positive deer recently since their last report. Hmmmmmmmm....

What about the several other sites in North Dakota and elsewhere that your father got banned from?

As to your question about logic, all I can tell you is that for those who understand, no explanation is necessary, and for those who don't, none is possible. It's up to you to choose or prove which tent you sleep in.

I'm done with adding perspective and facts to your obfuscation, so carry on and have a nice day.

I think you have the wrong guy.. we don't have an elk farm?.. nor have we ever hunted in or been involved with selling hunts or the likes with them besides knowing people and being friends with people that own them.. our testimony was what we testified to ourselves.. Dads can be viewed online on the legislative website, I never got the chance to testify in person so its been submitted online and sent in to legislators.

That "experts" testimony was just to state that there are other methods to combat CWD spread rather than eradication, or baiting restrictions, and that deer can have the ability to live out their life while positive with CWD and have full body functions.. that "expert" is also working with a few universities (Texas AM and Wisconsin) for studies on Humic acid and other avenues.. What apple creek does is whatever and tons of places do it around the country is their own choice, whether anyone agrees with high fence hunting or not.. at least the private sector is looking for answers to Combat CWD besides eradication and restrictions.. proactive instead instead of reactive take

 

[wct12]

Retyping it in Excel makes it easier to read but doesn't count as analysis. I don't know that we should say there was mismanagement. That is your opinion. It looks like they issued a lot more tags (3x in '07 vs '16) and harvest was much higher (3.6x), so I'm not sure where the mismanagement comes in. That said, there was also a lot more CRP (2.1x), which we can assume is better habitat for deer than a corn or soybean or wheat field. More habitat = higher sustainable population? That number isn't in there either. The short answer to the question did higher deer numbers lead to CWD = No, it was coming anyway. Did higher deer number speed up the spread? Maybe, no way to prove or disprove that. If deer are the mode of transmission, we can assume if ND deer numbers were close to zero you could be surprised to see CWD.

I have said it time and time before that I'm not a fan of habitat removal and we ourselves are doing things to increase habitat and improve it.

The mismanagement comes in years prior to the population explosion when they should have issued more tags out front to be proactive, and if they would actually listen to input from people at advisory board meetings (on all topics, not just this) instead of basically using them to as a way to inform people of updates.. the game and fishes number for a sustainable population is at 75,000 licenses. Again, license numbers are dependent on population.

Have you ever saw 600 deer piled in eating out of a silage pile fighting to get to the front of the line, and then had to scrape away 2" of deer droppings in the spring out of a hay yard? If letting a population double through mismanagement (double the deer congregating in the same area during winter months) doesn't lead to CWD, then neither does a bait pile.

 

[SAJ-99]

I have said it time and time before that I'm not a fan of habitat removal and we ourselves are doing things to increase habitat and improve it.

The mismanagement comes in years prior to the population explosion when they should have issued more tags out front to be proactive, and if they would actually listen to input from people at advisory board meetings (on all topics, not just this) instead of basically using them to as a way to inform people of updates.. the game and fishes number for a sustainable population is at 75,000 licenses. Again, license numbers are dependent on population.

Have you ever saw 600 deer piled in eating out of a silage pile fighting to get to the front of the line, and then had to scrape away 2" of deer droppings in the spring out of a hay yard? If letting a population double through mismanagement (double the deer congregating in the same area during winter months) doesn't lead to CWD, then neither does a bait pile.

Looks like ND farmers did a pretty good job of reducing the population. I don't want to try to argue the past, or what could have been done. But I can definitely see why they wouldn't listen to "input from the people at advisory board meetings".

 

[DGND]

Not guides, but to me, monetizing elk to be shot in pens is commercialization (and also a spreading vector for CWD). Interesting that you, and now DGND posting here, are both involved (have been) with it and that your "expert" non-science testimony on this bill comes from a deer farm in Wisconsin that charges the "hunt" by the inches of antler and had 148 CWD positive deer recently since their last report. Hmmmmmmmm....

What about the several other sites in North Dakota and elsewhere that your father got banned from?

As to your question about logic, all I can tell you is that for those who understand, no explanation is necessary, and for those who don't, none is possible. It's up to you to choose or prove which tent you sleep in.

I'm done with adding perspective and facts to your obfuscation, so carry on and have a nice day.

I remember that. It was called nodakoutdoors.com. Three federal guys from the Northern Prairie Wildlife Research Center USGS in Jamestown ND were the moderators. Lots of people got booted/banned. Kind of like facebook or twitter censoring certain thought. The place is a hollow shell now. Everyone left and went to fishingbuddy but that site imploded when a couple drunk as hell moderators took over. The booting off, caused a mass exodus.