MT Shoulder Hunts

[ron-ream]

My wife and I have cow tags in 422 North Dearborn area over by Augusta. Anyone know any ranchers that may give us permission to hunt their land for a couple cows during the upcoming shoulder hunt starting in Jan?
Any info would be appreciated.

 

[JMG]

You might try contacting the MT FWP in Great Falls at (406) 454-5840 and see if they know any landowner that has expressed problems with elk.

 

[hank4elk]

Why do MT folks call it a shoulder season?
I learned what slow elk season was when I lived there in olden days......lol

 

[Ben Lamb]

Because calling it an elk elimination program sounded too Teutonic.

 

[hank4elk]

Gotcha!

So they don't call them Radium Springs Health Baths anymore either?
Used to see the local Shakers & Quakers head the the mines when I was there. Never figured that one out either.....

 

[RobG]

Because calling it an elk elimination program sounded too Teutonic.

Yes, and the fact that the seasons are on either side (i.e. the shoulders) of the main season.

 

[hank4elk]

Thanks, I had kinda figured the shoulder/edge/rim of it out and know what they are really. That, or it was on the broad shoulders of the suffering ranchers...
I have lots of time to ponder these days it seems. I'm waiting for them to come back to my valley in decent numbers before I call it in.
Time is running out this year.
And I know some think any LO tag is wrong too,but my land is for them & me. There has to be more them for me right now.

 

[Zach]

Because calling it an elk elimination program sounded too Teutonic.

So are the counts off, the objectives to low or both?

 

[Ben Lamb]

So are the counts off, the objectives to low or both?

It's a complex situation that is primarily led by elk distribution and access to critters as well as political interference in wildlife management. In some instances, objectives are lower than what is actually carrying capacity and in other instances, the objectives are probably right on. We've also been dealing with significant challenges regarding climate, changing landowners patterns, privatization of elk and a few things I'm positive someone else will weigh in on.

Legally, FWP has to manage at or below objective. While we can argue about whether those objectives are too low or too high (depending on where you are), you can't argue with the law. You also have to take in to account climate changes affecting elk distribution, especially during the late season when most of the elk harvest traditionally occurred. Add in to that the political machinations of people who want to use elk as a weapon to advance their own agendas regarding a variety of issues, and it makes it even harder to manage elk like a native, valued wildlife species instead of a commodity or pest.

 

[Zach]

It's a complex situation that is primarily led by elk distribution and access to critters as well as political interference in wildlife management. In some instances, objectives are lower than what is actually carrying capacity and in other instances, the objectives are probably right on. We've also been dealing with significant challenges regarding climate, changing landowners patterns, privatization of elk and a few things I'm positive someone else will weigh in on.

Legally, FWP has to manage at or below objective. While we can argue about whether those objectives are too low or too high (depending on where you are), you can't argue with the law. You also have to take in to account climate changes affecting elk distribution, especially during the late season when most of the elk harvest traditionally occurred. Add in to that the political machinations of people who want to use elk as a weapon to advance their own agendas regarding a variety of issues, and it makes it even harder to manage elk like a native, valued wildlife species instead of a commodity or pest.

Given the legality of having to maintain the objectives at or below, would a majority of the MT residents against Shoulder seasons favor a CO style season structure? I seems like the length of seasons is a huge factor in harvest success. Is my thinking off or does that make sense?

 

[Ben Lamb]

Given the legality of having to maintain the objectives at or below, would a majority of the MT residents against Shoulder seasons favor a CO style season structure? I seems like the length of seasons is a huge factor in harvest success. Is my thinking off or does that make sense?

Most Montanans support long seasons and eschew pick your weapon, pick your season type structures. Between archery & general rifle, there are 11 weeks of general tag hunting. In the past, damage hunts were used in localized areas to try and push elk off of private land during critical times, but that's not helped as much as hoped due to some ranches acting as refugia and keeping elk out of the reach of hunters either for profit or because the landowner doesn't mind the elk.

I think moving to a structure like Colorado would not go over well here.

 

[Zach]

I don't know what I'd do if I had 11 weeks to hunt, probably be single.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I don't know what I'd do if I had 11 weeks to hunt, probably be single.

That's if you both archery hunt & rifle hunt.

It's a crazy amount of opportunity. Which is why most don't want to lose it, myself included.

 

[RobG]

I don't know what I'd do if I had 11 weeks to hunt, probably be single.

If you include the shoulder seasons you can hunt cow elk from mid August to mid February.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't know what I'd do if I had 11 weeks to hunt

Currently in Montana, pray to find a legal raghorn while taking your bow/rifle for a walk 77 days...

 

[tjones]

Which is why most don't want to lose it, myself included.

Shorter seasons are coming in a not so distant future.

 

[sbhooper]

I would hate to be the one that had to deal with all of the different angles of game management. Hunters want the max amount of elk possible-naturally. Ranchers who get no benefit from the elk via outfitting, want fewer numbers-which I can easily understand seeing what elk can do.

Elk tend to live in such inhospitable places, that without early snow, hunting can be problematic and therefore, harvest numbers depend on weather in most elk habitat. If too many permits are allocated, and if the weather is right, the harvest may be excessive. If no weather hits, then you have the ranchers crying because there are too many elk damaging their hay meadows or whatever later on.

It is a situation with really no good answer that will satisfy everybody. I will guarantee that if I had access to a shoulder season permit and a good ranch, I would take advantage of it, though.

 

[Zach]

That's if you both archery hunt & rifle hunt.

It's a crazy amount of opportunity. Which is why most don't want to lose it, myself included.

Well, I can't move to MT, at least not with my family.

 

[hank4elk]

I forgot how long some states seasons can be & over lap. Only hunted MT twice in 70's and it was hard to take the 2weeks I did both times.
44 days for deer helped a bunch in CA,elk was 3-5 days.
Got 5 days for most elk & deer seasons here with the boost of 2/2week bow seasons in NM and as stated currant conditions really affect the hunts. The huge herd that has been around here for 3 years has recently been down raiding Quemado nightly lol

 

[Bugle 'Em In]

Shorter seasons are coming in a not so distant future.

...and that's one of the frustrating things when I look at the shoulder seasons. "They're" in a hurry to reduce the elk population down, then we'll be hit with shorter seasons. This management makes no sense to my simple mind. Why not just keep the opportunity at 11 wks and reduce the elk that way?

Buzz is right about the raghorns. The praying was even done to find cows in the area where I hunt. Things are changing...!