MT residents thoughts on Steve Bullock

[Sytes]

For sake of speaking specifically towards the environment - per the opening post, (Hunt/Fish) and that of HT intended focus...


While I empathize with Martin's opinion on the landscape vs opportunity for Lincoln County jobs. The original change was valuable imo, due to a less than stellar set of regulations.
Today holds far greater safety for human and environment and the, "I love my environmentally friendly bullets" though just not mined in my area is respected, though I disagree, as a resident / employee of the same / mutual area.

To note: I greatly admire G Martin's opined thoughts and his manners. He is one of a few I hold high regard within HT.

Lincoln County holds one of the highest (8.8%) levels of unemployment in the nation. Montana, as a whole, is 3.7%...
We must balance modern mining and utilizing modern logging (a renewable resource) and the transit of such with our cherished forests / public lands.

As for politics... There are certain differences between partisan Democrat and Republican. There are those that must weigh the pros with the cons of each inclusive of all governing aspects, least for those of us stuck in the middle that do not toe one line or the other.

 

[Straight Arrow]

"84% of statistics are made up on the spot." Newhunter's tongue-in-cheek post on the thread "Life's advice and phrases" bears more truth than not. Assertions (words) are important as well. Careful interpretation and expression of statistics is key in making a point. Don't assert "one of the highest (8.8%) levels of unemployment in the nation" then support it with a huge colorful graphic that shows less than 8%. It contradictorily detracts from the point, which otherwise seems valid.

In support of the political point, I don't think it's any more valid for President Trump and the R's to take credit for the US unemployment rate of 3.9% than it is for Governor Bullock and the D's to take credit for the 3.7% unemployment rate for Montana. It is so much more complex than that, with R's and D's and so many others making decisions and influencing the economy.

 

[Sytes]

Lincoln County likewise saw improvement, from 8.8% in March to 7.3% in April, according to the Montana Department of Labor and Industry

https://www.dailyinterlake.com/local_news/20190518/jobless_rate_improves_in_northwest_montana
Well snap... Straighrt Arrow... Ya got me... One month last checked. Whew... Glad you caught that farce...

Of all counties in MT, Lincoln has the highest unemployment YET sit on mining opportunities and logging that are not utilized.

Disagree?

Of those dandy political parties, one is much more supportive of mineral extraction. Care to guess or would you like to make it up on the fly? Divert or change subjects?

Of all the counties in the U.S.

 

[MTGomer]

Come on Charles, are you new around here?
Why would anybody want to make a six figure salary with half the year off in mining and live in a beautiful place like Libby, when they can be a broke dick fly fishing guide and suck off the government in the off season?

Real Montanans are grateful for the opportunity to cater to tourists
in summer and drink PBR on the slopes in the winter. They don’t need 401k, insurance or a salary. They damn sure don’t need no damned industry that will attract the steelworkers union( that used to vote democrat).

 

[Straight Arrow]

"Of those dandy political parties, one is much more supportive of mineral extraction." I agree. Montana is a red state, so what's the problem?

Another interesting statistic reflects a sad focus on mesothelioma (asbestosis), the affliction which has affected Lincoln County residents with agreeably unacceptable numbers. Although not justifiably related to recent mining technology proposed for projects in Montana, and particularly in Lincoln County, but still with a stifling effect. Just guessing, but that may significantly influence the attitude about mining in that area.

 

[MTGomer]

Whether good or bad, I think the attitude against mining is coming from outside Libby. The numerous Libby Residents working for Hecla on Admiralty Island would love to come home.

 

[Sytes]

Play your games, SA...
As you so frequently divert from the content shared in the post regarding past practice vs modern safety for mining, etc
Asbestos changed not just Libby, rather the nation on many fronts. Though I don't need to share this. You know this.
The "not in my backyard" mentality when enjoying your copper crafted items, lumber built house has the typical extremist Democrat rant, oil from foreign source, timber from Canada / elsewhere.

Meh, Democrats have done squat to counter the extremist environmental wackos that hold hostage many American / Montanan family supported jobs. For sake of overgrowth, excess canopy...
God forbid we utilize a renewable resource. Mine our own steel, copper, etc... Depend on Chinese steel and have Canadian trucks haul dimensional lumber right through the very towns / forests of those who've lost employment...
Of all the countries, USA has to hold some of the highest standards for Mine Safety.

"I want all these cool electronics, drive my car and sleep peacefully" so long as those raw materials come from elsewhere. Out of sight, out of mind
Hey, not in your backyard though.

 

[Straight Arrow]

"Play your games, SA... " ????

"... typical extremist Democrat rant ... " ????

We seem to be straying far from "Mt residents thoughts on Steve Bullock."
Adios.

 

[BigHornRam]

Charles, can you put up some made up stats on SANDERS county? That's where this proposed mine is located.

Court Overturns Water Permit for Proposed Rock Creek Mine - Flathead Beacon

A Lewis and Clark County District Court judge has struck down a water permit issued by the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation for the proposed Rock Creek Mine near Noxon. The decision by Judge Kathy Seeley last week is the latest in a series of setbacks for Idaho-based...

flatheadbeacon.com

 

[BigHornRam]

The misinformation about the Libby "asbestos" mine always makes me scratch my head. It was a vermiculite mine. Vermiculite was used as an insulation material and it contains asbestos. A lot of homes all over the country were insulated with it years ago before we knew the harmful effects of it.

Read the label on a bag of fiberglass insulation today. It says "this product is known to cause cancer in the State of California." Good thing I dont live in California.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

It is sad to see people move to MT and get their piece of paradise. Then vote for people like Bullock in hopes to make it so that no one around their piece of paradise can do anything that will change it, and insure no one else can come get a piece of paradise around them. Folks come here with their pensions set and settle down to spend out their lives and bring with them their political values from where they came that caused them to run. Yet they still vote for the same bs. There is always some guy like Bullock willing to feed them the lies in order to garnish power. Meanwhile we lose more and more rights for the greater good. Lose our ability to make a living for the sake of some environmental horse pucky. The goats in GP don't seem to have any trouble with the masses of people and paved rd. Nor do the griz. Yet we put in a rd in Libby and the goats will all die. C'mon man! At least be honest, you don't want more people to live near you. Like all lefties it's all about you, be damned the rest.

This site is about being able to use public land. Many sportsmen are more than happy to limit this access by getting rid of roads and making less points of access to an area, then call this a good thing, in hopes that less people will be there when they go and use the area. Just like traditional bow hunter that are more than happy to shorten the bow season in hopes that there will be less bow hunters. So that they can have a better experience. Selfish. The left is never honest about their motivations. The leadership lies to the folks that vote for them and the folks that vote for them and their policies, lie about why they vote that way. If the left would be honest about why they do what they do I could respect them. They never will because they know their motivations are less than virtuous and there is no chance the public at large would vote for them or their policies aimed to gain power and control.

I grew up calling myself an environmentalist, until I realized that the term had been coopted by a bunch of anti capitalist/socialist that want to use the term to remove our rights and take away our freedom.

 

[Sytes]

Charles, can you put up some made up stats on SANDERS county? That's where this proposed mine is located.

Court Overturns Water Permit for Proposed Rock Creek Mine - Flathead Beacon

A Lewis and Clark County District Court judge has struck down a water permit issued by the Montana Department of Natural Resources and Conservation for the proposed Rock Creek Mine near Noxon. The decision by Judge Kathy Seeley last week is the latest in a series of setbacks for Idaho-based...

flatheadbeacon.com

I'd be glad to share Montana Governor's Office made up unemployment numbers, if SA would like? http://dli.mt.gov/news/94
Though they, Governor Bullocks Office, place Lincoln at 8.9%.

An employed Lincoln County resident whom works in it's neighboring Sanders County is one less unemployed Lincoln County resident, not to discount the intended Troy operation as well.

Let Hecla continue work in Lincoln County

The Lincoln County Commission wants to share our dismay with a recent decision by the Montana Department of Environmental Quality and the Governor’s Office to file a violation against Hecla

missoulian.com

The Lincoln County Commission wants to share our dismay with a recent decision by the Montana Department of Environmental Quality and the Governor’s Office to file a violation against Hecla Mining under the “permit prohibition” provision of Montana Metal Mine Act.

Lincoln County Leaders Frustrated with Decision to Label Hecla Mining a ‘Bad Actor’ - Flathead Beacon

Political leaders in Lincoln County are expressing dismay over the state’s decision to label an Idaho company hoping to open two mines in Northwest Montana a “bad actor.” Last month, the Montana Department of Environmental Quality announced that Hecla Mining Inc. and its president, Phillips...

flatheadbeacon.com

The decision has riled leaders in Lincoln County, where people have long hoped the opening of the Rock Creek and Montanore mines would alleviate years of economic hardship. Lincoln County consistently has one of the highest unemployment rates in the state.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

It was brought to my attention that I was unjustly calling an individual a leftist in my last post. FWIW my post is in general aimed at all who would read it. If an individual feels like they personally have been targeted by it, they should probably re think their personal position on these issues.

 

[Gerald Martin]

The goats in GP don't seem to have any trouble with the masses of people and paved rd. Nor do the griz. Yet we put in a rd in Libby and the goats will all die. C'mon man! At least be honest, you don't want more people to live near you. Like all lefties it's all about you, be damned the rest.


Steve, comparing the Going to the Sun Road and its effect on summering goats and the Rock Creek Mine road that goes directly below the only wintering habitat in that drainage for this herd of goats is not an apples to apples comparison. IMO, based on what I understand about goat biology, this herd will be gone when the mine goes in. Will they relocate or will they just die when they find themselves pushed out of their accustomed winter range and have to compete with other established herds on the cliffs they winter on? Oh well, there are half a dozen other herds that are in the same hunting unit. Losing 15-20% of the Cabinet herd probably won't have much of an effect on anyone.

I have no doubts the mine will eventually go in. There seems to be too much political support on both sides of the aisle in the county and the ore body is too rich to ignore forever. But it will come with real costs. Far to many people who call themselves conservatives are only willing to look at the value of resources as commodities and refuse to assign a value to the "free" things that God placed on this earth for all of us. Let the free market assign a value to clean water, clean air, and restoration of land after resource extraction is finished and incorporate that into the cost of goods. That would be a responsible business model. If a private insurance company will not accept the risk associated with nature disaster, design flaws, or improper mining practices, then we as the tax payers shouldn't be forced to foot the bill when a mine goes out of business, declares bankruptcy, and leaves a disaster.

The legacy of mining in Montana is not one that gives me a great deal of comfort when looking at potential affects to an area I love. Call me a NIMBY, call me selfish, call me whatever, but you are exactly right that I don't want more people to live next to me. It will happen, but I'm not going to facilitate it, especially when there is nothing in it for me, my family and the area I call home. I don't see my self-interested priorities being in any greater conflict with society than someone who wants to live in Noxon and make lots of money and doesn't care what happens to the goats in Rock Creek.

The attitude surrounding resource extraction is far closer to " I don't really care about the environmental costs, show me the money" than most conservatives are comfortable accepting. The attitudes surrounding resource preservation and "environmentalism" are far closer to "No resource extraction/molestation of Mother Earth is ever acceptable," than many progressives would like to admit.

We like to view comples issues in simple terms that make it easy to label and caricature someone who holds a different viewpoint than us or accepts the label of a different tribe. I wonder if either side would be happy seeing the logical consequences that would follow unhindered implementation of their world view?

 

[MTGomer]

Mr Martin’s last two paragraphs are worth reading twice.

 

[Sytes]

We like to view complex issues in simple terms that make it easy to label and caricature someone who holds a different viewpoint than us or accepts the label of a different tribe. I wonder if either side would be happy seeing the logical consequences that would follow unhindered implementation of their world view?

Internet forum posting allow us to share our primary opinions on positions. I'm sure we all hold reservations, akin to voting for / against the likes of Bullock. However, there is a point where we define our support or opposition taking into account the compexities each candidate brings with their baggage. Those logical consequences come with the vote. *Attempting to re-route back to Bullock.

Cheers Gerald. Always enjoy your conversations, agree or disagree.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

You have to accept the lie that conservatives don't care about the environment in order to make those statements.

Unless you think the goats will get run over on the road, a road here vs there is the same. Nobody explained to the goats in GNP that the people on the road are not working so it is ok.

 

[BigHornRam]

Honest thought out opinion that any non partisan thinking person can respect, Gerald. Thanks for sharing them.

 

[RockyMtnMT]

To live in whatever little town in MT that you chose, to get away from whatever place you came from, and purchase your personal piece of paradise. Then build your home and establish your roads to it, while voting for regulations that keep others from bettering their lives. How is it that your usage of this piece of paradise, to the detriment of the wildlife that would have utilized the space that you now occupy and use for your personal daily gain, is justified?

Rhetorical question...

 

[BigHornRam]

To live in whatever little town in MT that you chose, to get away from whatever place you came from, and purchase your personal piece of paradise. Then build your home and establish your roads to it, while voting for regulations that keep others from bettering their lives. How is it that your usage of this piece of paradise, to the detriment of the wildlife that would have utilized the space that you now occupy and use for your personal daily gain, is justified?

Rhetorical question...

That's called the Montana paradox. It's like partisanship, I don't have an answer for it.