shoots-straight
Well-known member
Oh so turn down a gift horse? My dad raised a smarter man. Never look a gift horse in the mouth.
MT residents thoughts on Steve Bullock
- Thread starter Ben Nicholson
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shoots-straight
Well-known member
I believe a "gift horse" has it's scale for acceptable or not. For political favor? Not a chance in hell.
My father received the purple heart in Nam.
My uncle gave his life in Nam.
Is she directly responsible... No clue though she was a factor voluntarily used against our troops.
Hanoi Jane was devoted to supporting the propaganda machine of our enemy used with the intent to adversely affect the morale of American troops.
So speak of a "gift horse"? I'd tell her to shove the cash up her ass, lest we forget...
All respect to you and your seasoned sage skills may be more forgiving though to say "never..." is beyond my interest.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
It's a CNN "power ranking", not a poll.
BigHornRam
Well-known member
19th in this power ranking for what either are worth.
www.rollingstone.com
The RS Politics 2020 Democratic Primary Leaderboard
How Joe Biden, Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders, and others stack up in the 2020 presidential election against Donald Trump.
www.rollingstone.com
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I would hope you scrutinize those donors and supports Trump has as well. Even though he was a draft dodger. , many gave him a pass as that was a long time ago, right?
BTW she's hosting the fund raiser, I'd bet that many that attend are patriotic as you are that are in attendance.
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noharleyyet
Well-known member
Did Trump switch parties?
Ben, what happened to your whataboutism virtue signal?
Ben, what happened to your whataboutism virtue signal?
Gerald Martin
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If guilt by association is going to be applied evenly across the lines in regards to politicians, donors, and voters, who is going to withstand scrutiny from their opposition?
I have shared campfires and conversations with Ben Lamb and Sytes. Does this make me a pinko, commie ,liberal or a xenophobic, right wing racist? Or perhaps I should
ask if I can attach myself to the incredible conservation work of Lamb or the patriotic protection of our country’s borders by Sytes?
I think I may be experiencing political dysphoria. Does anyone provide counseling for this condition and will the government pay if surgery is required?
I have shared campfires and conversations with Ben Lamb and Sytes. Does this make me a pinko, commie ,liberal or a xenophobic, right wing racist? Or perhaps I should
ask if I can attach myself to the incredible conservation work of Lamb or the patriotic protection of our country’s borders by Sytes?
I think I may be experiencing political dysphoria. Does anyone provide counseling for this condition and will the government pay if surgery is required?
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
It seems that this term “Draft Dodger” get thrown out there pretty easily. The fact is Trump did not break any laws. During Vietnam there were a great many people that attempted to get out of being drafted. They were not all bad people and tried legally. Some have gone on to do their part for our country in other ways. Not everyone is cut out for the military as not everyone is cut out to be a cop, firefighter, or doctor. I really don’t believe it is fair to compare his efforts to avoid being drafted, as many did, in the same class as the anti-American rants and distressful behavior that Jane Fonda did. Not even close. It was common during that time for students, and others to try to find a way out. I would also venture a guess that with everyone, if we looked real deep into their history, there is something that others would find unacceptable. Maybe a DUI, spousal abuse, lying, steeling a piece of candy, taking supplies home from work, maybe something much worse, and the list goes on and you should get the picture. Bottom line, we all have things in our past and when we were young that we could have done differently.
Trump has more than vindicated himself for anything he may have done as a younger person, In my opinion. He has done some pretty great things for our country, he paid his own campaign, he donated to help during the 911, and he does not accept a paycheck among a slew of other stuff.
Lots of folks just don’t like him and that’s fair. It would be better to just say you don’t like him as apposed to continually trying to discredit based on things in his past that really don’t apply.
I’m sure there is more I intended to say, but this alone will get me beat up, so I’ll stop there. He is our President, and even if you don’t like the man, there ought to be some respect for the office and good that he has accomplished. Again, in my opinion...
The gift horse:
Using the blue knob of the fountain for sake of a couple notable examples
Obama denounced Farrakhan's endorsement in '08
Gabbard denounced Duke's endorsement this year.
@Losing_Sanity Then there's Clinton... Draft Dodger throughout Vietnam. He about crapped himself when he found out a Democrat (and not Bush's team) released Clinton's letter to the media regarding the ROTC recruiter that Clinton expressed his appreciation for getting him out of the draft and no intent to become involved with the ROTC.
Always a way to crack the curve ball outta the park.
Using the blue knob of the fountain for sake of a couple notable examples
Obama denounced Farrakhan's endorsement in '08
Gabbard denounced Duke's endorsement this year.
@Losing_Sanity Then there's Clinton... Draft Dodger throughout Vietnam. He about crapped himself when he found out a Democrat (and not Bush's team) released Clinton's letter to the media regarding the ROTC recruiter that Clinton expressed his appreciation for getting him out of the draft and no intent to become involved with the ROTC.
Always a way to crack the curve ball outta the park.
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Was waiting for this.
It's not whataboutism. It's a direct comparison to the person he would end up running against in a political climate that rewards the worst behavior in a politician. The rules have changed since 16. If you think the morality of a candidate or their supporters is enough to do anything other than feed the outrage machine and reinforce pre-existing ideologies, you've not been paying attention.
I'm not excusing Fonda for her anti-American ways, just saying that it doesn't rise above the din of everything else when we are in constant crisis and scandal mode. Plus, the majority of voters aren't going to put Jane Fonda and Hanoi together, since it happened well before they were born.
Just like Trump supporters are ok with concentration camps for migrants, because they don't remember the stories of their parents & grandparents. (Now THAT's whataboutism).
Meanwhile, the very stable genius was relieved we didn't have anyone on a drone.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Was waiting for this.
It's not whataboutism. It's a direct comparison to the person he would end up running against in a political climate that rewards the worst behavior in a politician. The rules have changed since 16. If you think the morality of a candidate or their supporters is enough to do anything other than feed the outrage machine and reinforce pre-existing ideologies, you've not been paying attention.
I'm not excusing Fonda for her anti-American ways, just saying that it doesn't rise above the din of everything else when we are in constant crisis and scandal mode. Plus, the majority of voters aren't going to put Jane Fonda and Hanoi together, since it happened well before they were born.
Just like Trump supporters are ok with concentration camps for migrants, because they don't remember the stories of their parents & grandparents. (Now THAT's whataboutism).
Meanwhile, the very stable genius was relieved we didn't have anyone on a drone.
Yea, I get the unarmed/unmanned 'trump fox pass', now quit doubling down and own your selective outrage... and for crissakes, stop quoting the dipchit barmaid.
I want a better executive branch just as much as you...I also get that Bullock must join the party 'din' so his lip service to lefty lunacy and celebrity butt breath doesn't bother nor shock me.
...and Nemont is still right...your party ain't letting anything or anyone near the center.
"I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat." Will Rogers
Also, I'm not outraged. Just a bemused observer. I like Bullock, and I'm volunteering for his campaign. I've worked with the man for three terms and I know how he governs. It's solidly from the center. Both the far right and the far left hate him. But he won re-election in 16 and he's done some great things for MT and for the nation when you look at his track record with the Western Gov's Association.
The views of celebrities are usually poorly formed and vapid. Reagan and Trump come to mind, just as much as Clooney or Fonda.
noharleyyet
Well-known member
Also, I'm not outraged. Just a bemused observer.
'Concentrated' hyperbolic tends to connote the outrage signal....just an amused observer.
'Concentrated' hyperbolic tends to connote the outrage signal....just an amused observer.
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
Just like Trump supporters are ok with concentration camps for migrants, because they don't remember the stories of their parents & grandparents. (Now THAT's whataboutism).
Meanwhile, the very stable genius was relieved we didn't have anyone on a drone.
Ben, I don't personally know you, but I have enjoyed most of what you put down. You are a very intelligent person and I'd really like to know you. I think we all can learn from your experiences. Unfortunately, this statement is beneath you and you generally don't give into such crap. Generally you have intelligent writing with accurate facts.
These concentration camps are not concentration camps as the name implies. It's a term is derogatory and used to infuriate and get people worked up. In these camps people are treated much better than the days these camps were built and intended for. They get meals, medical, housing, and much more. The Illegals are here illegally. Where are we supposed to house the magnitude of illegals? What are we supposed to do with them? How many do you have staying at your house? Do you own land, how many camps are on your property? It's a sad day when illegals are more important than legal citizens. I was a very poor child and was refused medical care due to inability to pay. We were lucky to get hand me outs scraps from the local produce sheds. These folks are cared for. I don't think it is fair to expect all Americans to accept the responsibility if they are here illegally. I do care for them and want to help them, but in a legal fashion. We have to house them somewhere. It does not mean inhumane and in fact at times our Military are housed in worse conditions in the performance of their duties.
We will agree to disagree...
I appreciate the post, but I do think we're legitimately running concentration camps. Here's how Webster's Dictionary defines them: a place where large numbers of people (such as prisoners of war, political prisoners, refugees, or the members of an ethnic or religious minority) are detained or confined under armed guard —used especially in reference to camps created by the Nazis in World War II for the internment and persecution of Jews and other prisoners
We are currently running places where large numbers of people (refugees & members of ethnic groups) are detained and confined under armed guard.
If you feel assaulted by the facts, then perhaps you should re-evaluate your position.
Irrelevant
Well-known member
Same with murderers, should we call them prisons instead?
Losing_Sanity
Well-known member
If you feel better... If you or I break the law, where are we going? To the lock up.
It is very possible that some these illegals are murders, and child rapist, and drug dealers, and any other criminal aspect you would like to name. But still they are here illegally.
Let me pose the question to you as well, how many do you have staying with you? How about land, do you have tent cities on your property? I'm all for Trump's suggestion that we deliver them to sachuary cities. Maybe you can house 10 or 20 also.
But this post is not about that subject and is headed down the wrong fox hole. In fact, this post may have ran it's course and there isn't much new being brought to the table.
RobG
Well-known member
I think "Concentration camps" conveys a meaning far beyond its strict definition and it doesn't describe what Trump is doing.
I have a lot of sympathy for the men making the case that we shouldn't be defined by stupid stuff we did 30 years ago. Jane's Hanoi stunt was almost 50 years ago and she has expressed regret many times. I bet most the people outraged by her weren't even born.
I have a lot of sympathy for the men making the case that we shouldn't be defined by stupid stuff we did 30 years ago. Jane's Hanoi stunt was almost 50 years ago and she has expressed regret many times. I bet most the people outraged by her weren't even born.
We are on the list to host refugees with a non-profit in Missoula. We have the room to put up a family and we're happy to do so if needed.
But this was my point - Fonda will be less of an issue because of everything else that's been happening. It was easy to turn this into a conversation about putting kids in prison/concentration camps and have folks forget Fonda altogether. I don't think having Hanoi Jane's help is going to do much to swing people against Bullock.
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