MT FWP Tentative Season setting meetings

[tjones]

It should be noted that 93 percent of the current harvest in HD 103 is focused on whitetails. Making that particular HD a mule deer permit area shouldn't have a significant effect on overall opportunity. It might take some of the application pressure off of the Region 2 trophy zones, as region 1 doesn't currently have a true limited entry mule deer area.

Joel, do you know it this area is included in the Hellgate Treaty? Guess I am wondering if the tribe will be able to pound these bucks should the unit go LE like they do HD270?



FYI


In west-central Montana’s Region 2, FWP will host 12 meetings as follows:

Jan. 2 Anaconda Metcalf Center (115 Pennsylvania) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 3 Lincoln Lambkins Café (460 Main St.) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 4 Missoula Doubletree Hotel (100 Madison St.) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 8 Deer Lodge Community Center (416 Cottonwood Ave) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 9 Darby Community Clubhouse (106 N. Main St.) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 10 Seeley Lake Community Hall (3248 Hwy 83) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 11 Potomac/Greenough Lubrecht Castles Center (38689 Hwy 200) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 15 Helmville Community Center (Hwy 271) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 16 Hamilton Bitterroot River Inn (139 Bitt Plaza Dr.) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 17 Philipsburg Granite Co Museum (135 S. Sansome St.) 6:30 p.m.
Jan. 18 Superior High School (410 Arizona Ave.) 7:30 p.m.
Jan. 22 Drummond Community Center (52 East Broad St.) 6:30 p.m.

 

[BuzzH]

I see a lot more 4 county plates than prior to a good portion of region 2 becoming a draw. I suppose it could be something else causing the influx, but mule deer bucks seem to be cool species for the flat brimmed hat crowd. I grew up in western Montana, so I understand the original local crowd being fine with hunting whitetails because that is all my dad and grandfathers hunted. Elk was the only game animal worth traveling for in those days. Now it seems different.

I think a bigger reason that people go east for mule deer, is not because of a handful of areas in region 2 going draw, but because mule deer hunting sucks in Western Montana. I was looking over my journals a couple days ago. In a very large geographic area of a hunting unit I spend a lot of time in, I have not seen a mule deer in 7 years. Prior to that, I would see at least 30-40 a season. While never good mule deer hunting, there were at least some around. They are now extinct in a large portion of that hunting unit. Yet, there's still an 11 week season for antlered mule deer...could change to 52 week season and it wouldn't matter.

 

[joelweb]

Joel, do you know it this area is included in the Hellgate Treaty? Guess I am wondering if the tribe will be able to pound these bucks should the unit go LE like they do HD270?

Good question. I don't know.

 

[joelweb]

I think a bigger reason that people go east for mule deer, is not because of a handful of areas in region 2 going draw, but because mule deer hunting sucks in Western Montana. I was looking over my journals a couple days ago. In a very large geographic area of a hunting unit I spend a lot of time in, I have not seen a mule deer in 7 years. Prior to that, I would see at least 30-40 a season. While never good mule deer hunting, there were at least some around. They are now extinct in a large portion of that hunting unit. Yet, there's still an 11 week season for antlered mule deer...could change to 52 week season and it wouldn't matter.

Mule deer hunting doesn't suck in western Montana, it's just a lot better out east.

 

[bigsky2]

The state doesn’t need more limited entry deer tags. It needs statewide regulation adjustment if anything. More LE units only displace more hunters, which increases pressure on the units remaining general. It creates a nasty downward spiral. Most hunters won’t quit, they will just go to another unit.

Contrary to popular belief, more draw units are not they answer to every problem, and often they create worse problems than they fix. There ain’t much good in a unit you’ll only draw a handful of times in your life. I’d much rather hunt deer every year at a disadvantageous time of the fall then hunt the rut once every 10-15 years.

This is a good point. I would rather shorten the season than create more LE units. That being said, I'm not against more LE units, I just think a shorter season is a better solution. I have thought about this a lot and here's what I think MT could do that would help the deer and still keep a lot of people somewhat happy:

Start the season a week earlier, and end the season two weeks earlier. The people that think they need a month to hunt deer would still be happy. People that think we need to hunt mule deer during the rut would still get a week or so of rut activity to keep them happy. The season would only be shortened by a week, but ending the season the second weekend of November would really help the mule deer.

My first choice would be to cut the last two weeks off of our current season dates, but I know it would be hard to get people to go for that. This idea is a compromise of what I want and what the majority of people probably want.

I am against an antler point restriction, for the same reasons antlerradar stated.

 

[BuzzH]

Mule deer hunting doesn't suck in western Montana, it's just a lot better out east.

Have you looked at the check station reports for regions 1, 2, and 3? I'd say it sucks major ass, in particular when comparing data from the 60's-90's.

When I started hunting in 1980, the country I hunted, it was about impossible to not see 50 mule deer a day. Seeing 5 a day is doing pretty well now. That's sucks, IMO.

 

[tjones]

This is a good point. I would rather shorten the season than create more LE units. That being said, I'm not against more LE units, I just think a shorter season is a better solution. I have thought about this a lot and here's what I think MT could do that would help the deer and still keep a lot of people somewhat happy:

Start the season a week earlier, and end the season two weeks earlier. The people that think they need a month to hunt deer would still be happy. People that think we need to hunt mule deer during the rut would still get a week or so of rut activity to keep them happy. The season would only be shortened by a week, but ending the season the second weekend of November would really help the mule deer.

My first choice would be to cut the last two weeks off of our current season dates, but I know it would be hard to get people to go for that. This idea is a compromise of what I want and what the majority of people probably want.

I am against an antler point restriction, for the same reasons antlerradar stated.

Some of the unlimited permit units close on 11-15. In the unit I hunted MD in this year the bulk of the rut activity I saw was from 11-5 to 11-15.

 

[OpenCountry]

It seems like a lot of hunters would gladly welcome a little change to the current season. Each year I talk to more and more guys that agree on the simplest of changes.

Why not make all deer units a draw for either sex tags? It could still be a guaranteed draw to begin with to see what units get absolutely pounded by hunters. Once a hunter applies for that unit they can only hunt that unit on their tag.
That or make the first three or four weeks a general season and anything in November a draw hunt. Any hunter should be able to get the meat they want in the freezer in the first three or four weeks.

I'm still confused on how somebody can draw a special permit for elk but still be allowed to go and hunt elk in general units. However, when a hunter draws a special permit for mule deer they are limited to that unit for mule deer. It makes sense that if you applied and drew the special permit that you should hunt in the permit location for the species you applied for.

 

[bigsky2]

Anyone ever wonder why Wyoming and Colorado have great high country mule deer hunting and Montana doesn't?

 

[el unit]

Region 3 meeting dates, locations, and times. I'll be at the Butte meeting.

January 3:
Whitehall
Whitehall High School
6 p.m.–8 p.m.
January 4:
Bozeman
Holiday Inn-Bozeman
6 p.m.–8 p.m.
January 9:
Butte
United Congregational Church
6 p.m.–8 p.m.
January 10:
Livingston
Yellowstone Pioneer Lodge
6 p.m.–8 p.m.
January 11:
Helena
Montana Wild
5:30 p.m.–7:30 p.m.
January 11:
Dillon
Search & Rescue Building
6 p.m. – 8 p.m.
January 16:
Lima
Lima School
6 p.m. – 8 p.m.
January 18:
Gardiner
Gardiner High School
6 p.m. – 8 p.m.

 

[joelweb]

Have you looked at the check station reports for regions 1, 2, and 3? I'd say it sucks major ass, in particular when comparing data from the 60's-90's.

When I started hunting in 1980, the country I hunted, it was about impossible to not see 50 mule deer a day. Seeing 5 a day is doing pretty well now. That's sucks, IMO.

I know places in western Montana where I can find 50 deer a day. Problem is finding something bigger than a 20 inch 4x4.

 

[joelweb]

Some of the unlimited permit units close on 11-15. In the unit I hunted MD in this year the bulk of the rut activity I saw was from 11-5 to 11-15.

I would be comfortable if the muley season stopped at the end of the third weekend. We'd still get to hunt the early part of the rut, and it'd give the deer a break. Such a change would need to occur across a vast region in order to have an effect. Otherwise pressure would just concentrate.

 

[BuzzH]

I know places in western Montana where I can find 50 deer a day. Problem is finding something bigger than a 20 inch 4x4.

I guess when you didn't experience good hunting, its kind of tough to know the difference.

One of the bad things about being a hunter in Montana that's over 35, has hunted there for 3-4 decades...and does know the difference.

I reckon if I didn't know better, I'd tend to agree that mule deer hunting doesn't suck in Western Montana. For the record, it isn't close to what it was statewide either.

 

[300stw]

when you look at game animals, especially mule deer , that is a resource that appears to be declining in areas, age class of deer and overall deer numbers, it seems mule deer need a little protection, conservation, to really make positive adjustments in there numbers and fill habitats that don't have near as many deer as could be there

with the popularity of mule deer buck hunting, hunting throughout the rut seems detrimental, does Montana need a general season through the rut for people to harvest game,

how many other states offer the same season criteria, do hunters find success in these other states, just because Montana has hunted deer this way forever, does it need to continue

Idaho has a 20 or so day general season on mule deer, heck of a lot of hunters, there are lots of deer harvested there by the end of October,

even though I take advantage of hunting thru the rut in Montana, if the season ended nov 5th or so, It wouldn't phase me a bit, would it protect X amount of deer to carryover to the next year,
or , is the same amount of deer going to be harvested in a shorter time span,

maybe a 10 week rifle season to maximize chances to harvest and spread out the numbers of hunters,,,i hear this argument all the time , shorter seasons = more competition, hunter conflict, poor quality of out door experience, ect
the people that make that argument would love to have a longer season than we already have,
as hunters is there "supposed" to be 100 percent success harvesting game,,,

I spent 5 days around CMR last week elk hunting, the numbers of 4 point mule deer I seen on the cmr or next to the boundary was vastly greater than what I seen away from there, does that mean the cmr rules of shorter mule deer season are working, cant honestly say but it "seems" there is a difference

 

[BuzzH]

This is what I know...

Doing the same thing over and over and over again, and expecting different results is the definition of insanity.

I would say the MTFWP upper management should be provided with straight jackets, helmets, and padded rooms for their offices...and nothing sharp within reach.

I'm also going to do an ear check of every FWP employee in the room when I hit the Jan. 4 Motown meeting...gotta be some that resemble shrek.

 

[375H&H]

Anyone ever wonder why Wyoming and Colorado have great high country mule deer hunting and Montana doesn't?

Colorado is farrrr better for high country mule deer than Wyoming. Seriously. When Colorado switched to draw only for deer they brought their herd back big time. Wyoming has yet to do that and yes big bucks are around, but nothing like Colorado where every single unit can produce a 200" buck.

 

[375H&H]

I guess when you didn't experience good hunting, its kind of tough to know the difference.

One of the bad things about being a hunter in Montana that's over 35, has hunted there for 3-4 decades...and does know the difference.

I reckon if I didn't know better, I'd tend to agree that mule deer hunting doesn't suck in Western Montana. For the record, it isn't close to what it was statewide either.

God you really do know everything Buzz. I think the reason that the hunting isn't what it used to be is that you aren't hunting there anymore...people nowadays have no clue what they are doing compared to you.

 

[BuzzH]

God you really do know everything Buzz. I think the reason that the hunting isn't what it used to be is that you aren't hunting there anymore...people nowadays have no clue what they are doing compared to you.

I'm not hunting there anymore? Didn't know I ever quit...every season since 1980 with a license in my pocket, and tagged along with my Dad and Grandfather wayyy before that.

The elk, deer, sheep, moose, goat, and pronghorn hunting is worse now then when I left in 2000...by a landslide. Like I said, I wish I didn't know what I know...

The saddest part of the whole deal is the potential that is being squandered by the FWP and State Legislature...with lots of hunters willing to do the dirty work.

Ask anybody that's hunted Montana long if they think the deer, elk, pronghorn, sheep, moose, goat, or bison hunting is better now than in the 80's and 90's. Its not even debatable.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Buzz, if you're hunting on some of the better private land in some of the at or "over objective" units, the hunting is stunning today for elk, as in better now, than anywhere on earth in modern times. Probably some good deer and antelope on private too, but certainly not great since we can gun hunt them through November so many places. The hunting on public land in the majority of the state is in the toilet compared to 10 years ago, including elk, but deer especially. Last MT deer and elk I shot, I felt like I was shooting the last passenger pigeon.

 

[mdunc8]

Did you ever get over your fear of grizzly bears and kill a goat?

Imagine if you could hunt goats every year. You’d have plenty of time to get used to sleeping alone in the woods.

Yes, I'm still afraid of grizzlies. Yes, I'm still sad I didn't kill a goat. Doubtful that I'll get used to sleeping alone in the woods.