MT Fielder's Constitutional Referendum

[Gerald Martin]

Text of SB-236. http://leg.mt.gov/bills/2017/billpdf/SB0236.pdf

 

[Ben Lamb]

I get lost in all the numbers.

Thanks Gerald!

 

[Gerald Martin]

"

22 (a) scientifically manage fish and wildlife populations

;"

Great! I call for a rework of the Elk Management Plan to set objective levels at or near biological carrying capacity of the habitat rather than social acceptance.

(c) protect persons and property from threats or harm caused by fish or wildlife."

I have turkeys pooping on my sidewalk as I type. When I drag what I accidentley step on into the house, my wife takes a very uncharitable outlook on what is happening to her floor. Wildlife is threatening the security and love that makes my house a home. I have a constitutional right to self-defense and pursuit of happiness.. (Turkey barbecue this coming Saturday. All Hunttalkers are welcome to attend. Bring your own BBQ sauce)

 

[Gerald Martin]

I get lost in all the numbers.

Thanks Gerald!

Happy to do my small part for the benefit of mankind...

She didn't change the language at all from the original draft did she?

 

[Tkaldahl2000]

";"

Great! I call for a rework of the Elk Management Plan to set objective levels at or near biological carrying capacity of the habitat rather than social acceptance.



I have turkeys pooping on my sidewalk as I type. When I drag what I accidentley step on into the house, my wife takes a very uncharitable outlook on what is happening to her floor. Wildlife is threatening the security and love that makes my house a home. I have a constitutional right to self-defense and pursuit of happiness.. (Turkey barbecue this coming Saturday. All Hunttalkers are welcome to attend. Bring your own BBQ sauce)

Do I get to pick out my own turkey? You know, just like at the lobster house.

 

[shoots-straight]

Happy to do my small part for the benefit of mankind...

She didn't change the language at all from the original draft did she?

Gerald, they were meeting today to rework the bill. We have a guy working on it an hopefully some others that "Speak the Language" if you know what I mean.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Sounds good. Hopefully it will get much better or die a quick death.

 

[mdunc8]

Great! I call for a rework of the Elk Management Plan to set objective levels at or near biological carrying capacity of the habitat rather than social acceptance

Wouldn't that mean we'd have the manage for carrying capacities of wolves, lions, and bears too...?

 

[shoots-straight]

Wouldn't that mean we'd have the manage for carrying capacities of wolves, lions, and bears too...?

With who's in control in Helena these days, wishing for a rework of the EMP could mean far worse consequences for our elk herds than we have now. What if they picked lower numbers than what we have. You know there would be a battle. Who would be at the table to say how many elk? The last numbers were picked using nothing other than social concerns. What are those today? Do we roll the dice?

 

[BuzzH]

With who's in control in Helena these days, wishing for a rework of the EMP could mean far worse consequences for our elk herds than we have now. What if they picked lower numbers than what we have. You know there would be a battle. Who would be at the table to say how many elk? The last numbers were picked using nothing other than social concerns. What are those today? Do we roll the dice?

The way things are headed with elk in Montana...is it going to make it any worse by rolling the dice?

There is going to reach a point in time when the last, and only thing, to bring elk back will be revisiting the EMP. What other options are there now?

What other options are going to exist in the future?

I don't see a path forward without a revisit.

 

[shoots-straight]

The way things are headed with elk in Montana...is it going to make it any worse by rolling the dice?

There is going to reach a point in time when the last, and only thing, to bring elk back will be revisiting the EMP. What other options are there now?

What other options are going to exist in the future?

I don't see a path forward without a revisit.

Politically speaking, I don't see it getting any worse. Department wise, I don't see that getting any worse. I don't have the answer to any of your questions. We revisit, and don't get what we want, we end up with a EMP for the next 15 to 20 years.

The thing that bothers me, is when the EMP was written, we were suppose to follow those plans with the sideboards added depending on populations, to the letter. Today they do as they want anyway. Nobody is following anything.

A good example is the Pioneer Range in SW Montana. The elk counts are such that the season structures should trigger a conservative type of season package. Well because there's a ranch in the farthest south corner of the EMP area (several areas put together), that harbors 1000 head of elk, the whole zone is in a liberal season package and you can kill cow elk there with a general tag. They will never raise elk where you have that.

I don't think we'll get a good shake if we redo them. If all of us sportsman came to table and raised our voices then it could happen, but when have sportsman ever came together in mass to voice such concerns to raise numbers?

When your going to take something away, you see an uprising though. Try stopping some Forky mule deer harvest and see how many show up.

 

[u1299]

There's a lot of truth to your last paragraph- unfortunately..

 

[2ski]

";"

Great! I call for a rework of the Elk Management Plan to set objective levels at or near biological carrying capacity of the habitat rather than social acceptance.

This is what I was thinking too. Can't be asking for scientific management and then let the ranchers decide what the elk population should be.

 

[BuzzH]

I don't think we'll get a good shake if we redo them. If all of us sportsman came to table and raised our voices then it could happen, but when have sportsman ever came together in mass to voice such concerns to raise numbers?

When your going to take something away, you see an uprising though. Try stopping some Forky mule deer harvest and see how many show up.

This is what I think...until it gets worse, hunters are going to put more weight into being able to blast elk in February and August over doing whats best for the herds. So, I guess until things get so bad, that even the dimmest bulb on the Christmas tree realizes "their elk" are gone, then nothing changes. Unless the changes have to do with killing more of the depleted herds in Montana, then there will be changes to kill more, extend seasons even longer, issue more cow permits, etc.

The future of elk hunting in Montana is not good...and exactly why I sent my last elk tag to Hagener with a shitty gram explaining why I would never buy another elk tag there until something positive happened for Montana elk. I refuse to feel guilty for killing an elk there, I refuse to participate in the destruction of the elk herds there, and be party to the chickenshit management that the MTFWP tries to pass off as "science based"...its all a frickin' lie. Their own data makes no sense, conflicts with reality, and in no way is supported by anything to do with science or management. Its just a fact, and I have pointed this out numerous times to biologists and FWP leadership countless times. Excuse after excuse...and elk numbers continue to tank.

There is very little support from the hunting public in general to do anything about this...and the only way its going to change is if rock bottom is reached. I say, you residents kill your 2 elk every year, pound them flat, allow longer seasons, etc. The sooner rock bottom is reached the sooner change may happen.

Either way, its all headed to the same place and I don't see anyone in Montana willing to take the steps needed to properly manage elk there...or much of anything else for that matter.

Opportunity trumped wildlife biology and science a long, long time ago in Montana.

 

[shoots-straight]

There is very little support from the hunting public in general to do anything about this...and the only way its going to change is if rock bottom is reached. I say, you residents kill your 2 elk every year, pound them flat, allow longer seasons, etc. The sooner rock bottom is reached the sooner change may happen.

This is exactly what I'm thinking. If you've been following my comments on this board for the last 12 years then you would know that I've pretty much predicted what's transpired. When the elk herds are decimated on public lands and those looking to fill a cow tag for meat have to pay a $200 a day trespass fee, then and only then will you see a few more guys getting involved. IF you look at those fighting this losing battle you see a lot of blue hair. What's going to happen when those Blue Hairs are no longer able to go to war over this?

There is some good things happening though and maybe we need to dwell on those. Turkey hunting is better today than 20 years ago. LOL.

 

[RobG]

Gerald, they were meeting today to rework the bill. We have a guy working on it an hopefully some others that "Speak the Language" if you know what I mean.

So there may be a chance this will turn into a supportable CR?

 

[BuzzH]

This is exactly what I'm thinking. If you've been following my comments on this board for the last 12 years then you would know that I've pretty much predicted what's transpired. When the elk herds are decimated on public lands and those looking to fill a cow tag for meat have to pay a $200 a day trespass fee, then and only then will you see a few more guys getting involved. IF you look at those fighting this losing battle you see a lot of blue hair. What's going to happen when those Blue Hairs are no longer able to go to war over this?

There is some good things happening though and maybe we need to dwell on those. Turkey hunting is better today than 20 years ago. LOL.

I know, I'm preaching to the choir.

There are still people trying to do the right thing in Montana in regard to elk, but its few and far between.

 

[onpoint]

I know, I'm preaching to the choir.

There are still people trying to do the right thing in Montana in regard to elk, but its few and far between.

Some optimism tempered with reality:

Folks are finally now coming out of the woodwork and jumping on the "save our public lands" bandwagon now that there is a direct, imminent, and widely known threat.
The same thing could happen with this issue, but the parallel set of circumstances that would exist at that point are more than a little disconcerting.........

And SS, the blue hairs still in the fight - the Gibsons, the Schoonens, the Gutkoski's (not so much Joe anymore - but he's a legend), to name only a few - are a lot older than we are right now.
You have a long time yet to have to stay sharp:hump:........

 

[shoots-straight]

So there may be a chance this will turn into a supportable CR?

We're hopeful. Our man on the inside has not reported as of yet. It might show up on the bills progress page before I know.

 

[shoots-straight]

Here's the new wording.

“The citizens of Montana have the right to hunt, fish, trap and harvest wild fish and wildlife, including the use of customary methods. Hunting, fishing, and trapping by citizens is the preferred manner of controlling wild fish and wildlife and is subject to necessary management and conservation statutes enacted by the legislature and regulatory authority delegated by the legislature to a designated public agency or commission.

The right to harvest wild fish and wildlife is a heritage that shall forever be preserved to the individual citizens of the state and does not create a right to trespass on private property, diminution of other private rights, or the right to hunt, fish, or trap without a license.”