MT - Changes in Hunting Regs/Units/Seasons coming this month

[Schaaf]

So what did they decide after the comments? I’m stuck in meetings and can’t listen.

Proposal is out for a (30 day?) public comment period.

 

[SAJ-99]

Proposal is out for a (30 day?) public comment period.

Delay and approve after the fire dies down?

 

[MT Bound]

I’m always amazed how when one proposal gets shot down they instantly come back with something else. Did they actually have a second idea in their back pocket or are they just coming up with stuff on the fly? Are fwp staff even consulted on any of this?

I'm guessing they have had this planned out a long time ago: present the worst case scenario, then cut it back to look like we're giving in to the public....when in actuality it has been all planned out before hand...

 

[bigsky2]

Thankfully nothing was decided today. Once people realize this wasn't a win by any means, hopefully they will throw a fit just like the last proposal. Although I don't have a lot of faith in public comment, after seeing the last proposal get shot down, maybe there's hope.

 

[Carnage2011]

Time to double down on comments and make sure the commissioner knows how hunters feel.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I'm guessing they have had this planned out a long time ago: present the worst case scenario, then cut it back to look like we're giving in to the public....when in actuality it has been all planned out before hand...

Actually today’s proposals are pretty much a different handful of manure thrown at the metaphorical wall because of the massive negative public outcry over the previous slung manure proposals.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

How do you mean?

Do they include private land elk in their management goals?

Yes, at least around here they are always included.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Of that, and many things, I am ignorant. I've seen this before though, that it takes such a tidal wave of almost unanimous testimony to simply slow or curb political decisions. People can rally a certain number of times until serious fatigue sets in.

I guarantee that we can not sustain such efforts without some real shifts in strategy.

We know the debate is not the surface reasons quoted and thankfully some folks called it out.

Is there a realistic path to taking politics out of these decisions?

If a citizen initiative could be drafted to make a difference, it seems that while so many are fired up, now would be the time to hustle up and get it going. Just my very non-expert .02

A citizen's imitative in 2024 is a good idea. What that looks like remains to be seen. For 2022, I'm less optimistic that it can be pulled together & the money raised. That's why the coalition is focused on getting the proposal for the new EMP put together and substantive legislation that would right the ship.

Raising the kind of cash an initiative takes these days is hard to do in time to qualify for the ballot.

There's going to be a series of meetings slated to gather input & organize sportsmen, heck, anyone who isn't on board with the slap-dash way the agency's leadership is approaching this issue. Tentatives are just the first foray here. They are not the war.

There's a lot of road to go. Fatigue is real, but we need to recognize that the commission is more likely to listen to us today than perhaps in previous meetings. The power of grassroots can beat big money, but we all have to pull together in the same direction.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

A citizen's imitative in 2024 is a good idea. What that looks like remains to be seen. For 2022, I'm less optimistic that it can be pulled together & the money raised. That's why the coalition is focused on getting the proposal for the new EMP put together and substantive legislation that would right the ship.

Thanks for spelling out the plan which I 100% agree with.

I've seen initiatives rushed and then get dropped due a technicality in how was put together, losing serious momentum. If the new elk org will focus on a strategic build of grassroots support, fundraising and legislative groundwork then I'm all for it.

If this is in fact the plan for the new org, then might be worth considering documenting and sharing it with the supporters, so we have a vision of the long term goals for 2024. Knowing where a target finish line is can help moral and pace ourselves and make it to the "end".

 

[Ben Lamb]

@lifeisgoodsteve that's a solid idea. Thanks!

 

[Big Shooter]

@Big Shooter @Eric Albus Is MOGA pushing/supporting unlimited bull elk hunting on the 900-20 permit?

I AM NOT!!

 

[Ben Lamb]

How do you mean?

Do they include private land elk in their management goals?

I just don't see a fix to MT elk management in my lifetime. Its been on-going for 30+ years. Too many landowners hate them and too many want to make money off them, and too many want to keep them all for themselves. Since they don't reside on private/public land 100% of the time, there will never be a working solution that makes everyone happy.

I just find it extremely odd that 30 years ago we had 140-150,000 elk and had success rates in the 25-30% range. Today we're at 15-20%, but supposedly have 140,000-150,000 elk... longer seasons, more liberal bag limit (spike/cow on A tag, etc.) I just wasted 10 minutes trying to find historic population counts for MT with no luck, and dead end links to FWPs web page.

I'm just way too skeptical of population counts and have been forever. MT just thumb-sucks the population and harvest, then uses that to base management decisions. If you have basically the same number of hunters and the success is half... Pretty sure this is the guy in charge of population counts.

In most districts, especially east of the Belts, they count all elk in the objective.

In the past, we've looked to politicians to fix it instead of actually doing the hard work ourselves. The choice is either to get busy living, or get busy dying, to paraphrase William Munny.

 

[Big Shooter]

Paul Ellis has told people that MOGA supports that. Given how Paul is so often saying he is speaking on behalf of MOGA, I'm surprised they haven't added Paul to the Board of Directors.

Eric and Rod are on the Board of Directors, so if anyone knows for sure if Paul is speaking for MOGA when Paul makes such claims, Eric and Rod would surely know.

Might want to be careful about what you are stating!! If you want to know more…..you have my contact info. Paul has changed his tune in regards to opening up the 14 districts to general rifle. You BOTH know that you are welcome to reach out and contact me. I always enjoy our visits.

 

[Big Shooter]

Many folks that have spoken wit the director have been told that his job is to implement the Governor's agenda.

These proposals are all coming from political organizations that spend a lot of time, energy & money working to elect one party.

The backed up orgy of bills that were killed either at the Governor's office or during the session are now becoming proposals to the commission.

it's all political, and that has to change.

But I bet you liked it when ”your” party was elected. Just saying.

 

[Big Shooter]

Well, Mac Minard just testified that MOGA favors this proposal. Guess that answers your question.

Which proposal??

 

[Luke_with_a_lab]

Hank: "this was just intended to start a conversation"

Public testimony/ conversation: Hank literally leaves the room until public comment is almost over

 

[Big Fin]

Which proposal??

Unlimited archery permits for the units previously covered by the 900-20 archery elk tag.

 

[Schaaf]

Which proposal??

To increase Limited Entry rifle bull Permits by 50% and make archery hunting an unlimited permit.

 

[Big Fin]

Might want to be careful about what you are stating!! If you want to know more…..you have my contact info. Paul has changed his tune in regards to opening up the 14 districts to general rifle. You BOTH know that you are welcome to reach out and contact me. I always enjoy our visits.

I'm stating what Paul tells people as to the unlimited archery tags. If you knew half the stuff Paul tells people and that it is supposedly on behalf of MOGA, you'd probably need blood pressure pills. I know better, but a lot of the people he talks to don't know better.

He's happy to do a lot of talking. You know that and I know that. I would suggest you warn Paul to be careful, not me.

 

[Ben Lamb]

But I bet you liked it when ”your” party was elected. Just saying.

Well, I'm not a member of any political party. They're both not worth joining.

But we we were pushing them on the EMP not being enforced, pushing them to go cow only in over-objective units, asking them to raise objectives, supported increased harvest opportunities, trying to get other programs instituted that would have improved public land habitats, defied them on the PAL Act which they didn't want, but we did & got it done w/ Sen,. Blasdel (R-Big Fork)etc. We were hammering them on shoulder seasons, season setting, etc.

There's a deeper issue here that is just being laid bare by how far the pendulum has swung.