MT - Changes in Hunting Regs/Units/Seasons coming this month

[Gerald Martin]

Sure you can’t shoot from a snowmobile, but you can go behind most gated roads after Dec. 1 and you can go off-road in most areas.

From personal experience, I have driven past elk within 30-50 yards many times while riding gated roads looking for lion tracks. They usually stand and watch you go past. They’re not interested in expending more energy than necessary.

edit( not trying to attack you as the messenger @MTelkHuntress. Just pointing out the fallacy of FWP’s logic) Thanks for relaying the info.

 

[Sytes]

Look forward to attending the R1 set for tomorrow. Helps to have a bit of background entering this meeting. Thanks for posting up, @MTelkHuntress . Appreciate your note taking. How full was the audience in relation to prior events, etc?

Curious - is the public barred from recording a public meeting? I wouldn't think so. I don't have the ability to video though audio... about any phone will do such at pretty minimal space used. Dump to computer and erase from phone.

 

[golfer]

There was also a question of having muzzleloader education somehow and having muzzleloaders pay an extra fee like how bowhunters do.

Does this mean they getting at the point of if you will be hunting with a muzzleloader you will have to pay an additional $10?

 

[Gerald Martin]

Look forward to attending the R1 set for tomorrow. Helps to have a bit of background entering this meeting. Thanks for posting up, @MTelkHuntress . Appreciate your note taking. How full was the audience in relation to prior events, etc?

Curious - is the public barred from recording a public meeting? I wouldn't think so. I don't have the ability to video though audio... about any phone will do such at pretty minimal space used. Dump to computer and erase from phone.

Sytes, my info is especially pertinent for region 1. With as many folks out looking for lion tracks during the late season, elk and whitetail bucks are going to face even more pressure.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

Look forward to attending the R1 set for tomorrow. Helps to have a bit of background entering this meeting. Thanks for posting up, @MTelkHuntress . Appreciate your note taking. How full was the audience in relation to prior events, etc?

Curious - is the public barred from recording a public meeting? I wouldn't think so. I don't have the ability to video though audio... about any phone will do such at pretty minimal space used. Dump to computer and erase from phone.

The room was packed. There wasn't enough chairs so lots of people stood up around the room.
I thought I saw someone recording so it seems doable.

 

[MTelkHuntress]

Does this mean they getting at the point of if you will be hunting with a muzzleloader you will have to pay an additional $10?

I believe that was essentially the question. FWP didn't really answer the question but it just seemed like they were taking it as a comment.

 

[KB_]

Also lots of talk about RMEF projects falling through because the paperwork to get conservation decisions done was very long and complicated. I'm not sure what the solution was there. Something about better communication?

Paper work very long and Complicated? That is a piss poor excuse for being lazy and just wanting to show up an collect a paycheck. "Better Communication" that is just a cop out, they need to just do their damn jobs. Man that is frustrating

 

[GKimPrice]

Most Montana's are aware. Montana's spoke back in November when they elected Gov, U.S. Senate and House. You are correct , the radicals are here and doing their best to change this state. You will find that many on this forum will try and shout you down, they have bought completely into the far left playbook of antifa and blm...not bureau of land management for you marxist in the crowd, which there are many on this forum. At one time, not so long ago, hunters were a close knit group of people. Now, the radicals have divided that close knit group, dividing hunters, i.e. public land hunters, back country hunters, bow hunters, their typical M.O. divide and conquer. hunt talk being a prime example, a "public land forum". Of course, most hunters know that across the U.S., most hunting takes place on private ground, with only a handful of states having enormous acres of public ground, which is another subject all together. Yet they attempt, and successfully many times to divide hunters into not only public land hunters, but any group they can use to drive a wedge between hunters. The radicals will use these people until they no longer feel the need for them, then be done with them.....and any hunting. Now ....watch the rad's show began.....that is all this forum is really worth, observation, as the saying goes, keep your friends close....and your enemies closer.

"divide and conquer" has become a "D" battle cry but IF the "R"s get their heads out of their "south ends" it will BEGIN to come full circle

 

[GKimPrice]

The "D"s have set this "turnout" thing in motion long ago by paying via antifa and BLM, with the wells of $$$ they have at their disposal it is going to take a monumental effort by all conservatives and centrists to stop or even slow it down AND don't think for a moment that HUNTING, FISHING, OUTDOOR PURSUITS of all kinds are not a issue "they" need to control to change America's way of life, they ARE because even though elections are essential they are still a gamble but if you change POLICIES in the process what have we got left ??

 

[Schaaf]

"divide and conquer" has become a "D" battle cry but IF the "R"s get their heads out of their "south ends" it will BEGIN to come full circle

 

[GKimPrice]

You fight for what's right, even if you'll lose. Make them take it from us.
View attachment 190965

THIS is EXACTLY how we must THINK, ACT AND CONDUCT OURSELVES IF there is any hope at all - Not 3-4 years ago alot of we native Oregonians were talking about getting out of this HECKHOLE and moving to ID, many did but pay attention to what's now begun to happen there ..... We are being slowly pushed out of our own country and it is not random, it is VERY systematic

 

[Schaaf]

The "D"s have set this "turnout" thing in motion long ago by paying via antifa and BLM, with the wells of $$$ they have at their disposal it is going to take a monumental effort by all conservatives and centrists to stop or even slow it down AND don't think for a moment that HUNTING, FISHING, OUTDOOR PURSUITS of all kinds are not a issue "they" need to control to change America's way of life, they ARE because even though elections are essential they are still a gamble but if you change POLICIES in the process what have we got left ??

Are you aware that this thread is about wholesale changes to MT's hunting?

 

[GKimPrice]

Are you aware that this thread is about wholesale changes to MT's hunting?

I know the THREAD is but you had best realize and understand that "Montana's hunting" is an integral piece of their puzzle as is condemning passive thread stealing, which I'm not attempting to do, only make aware of the real much larger issue here

 

[Gerald Martin]

I know the THREAD is but you had best realize and understand that "Montana's hunting" is an integral piece of their puzzle as is condemning passive thread stealing, which I'm not attempting to do, only make aware of the real much larger issue here

Here in Montana the DEMs are so sneaky and insidious that they have infiltrated the MT GOP posing as conservatives and TEA Party constitutionalists.

They have passed socialist policies like outfitter welfare, and attempted to insert crony capitalism into wildlife management by privatization of public trust resources.

They claim to be conservatives but they are just Deep State shadow operatives who take the money George Soros funnels through donors to the MT GOP.

Myself and other resident sportsmen are being quite adept at recognizing the actions of these faux conservatives.

Some of them have posed for campaign pictures on what they claim is public land but it was really private. One dude claims to love public land recreation but he also sued FWP to try and shut down a popular public recreation area that he built his house beside.
The DEM’s are running these deep state operatives so that Montanans get frustrated with the GOP and hand power back to them.

Wascals! Wascals, I tell you! Trickier than a long eared carrot chewing Wabbit that likes to call people ,”Doc.”

 

[Schaaf]

I know the THREAD is but you had best realize and understand that "Montana's hunting" is an integral piece of their puzzle as is condemning passive thread stealing, which I'm not attempting to do, only make aware of the real much larger issue here

Thank you for your service

 

[timmy]

I know the THREAD is but you had best realize and understand that "Montana's hunting" is an integral piece of their puzzle as is condemning passive thread stealing, which I'm not attempting to do, only make aware of the real much larger issue here

My goodness take the tinfoil hat off. People have lost their minds.

 

[ignorethefringes]

It's always interesting to be witness to the beginning of the end of a member on HT, lol.

 

[JLS]

The term “clanging cymbal” comes to mind.

 

[rogerthat]

I know the THREAD is but you had best realize and understand that "Montana's hunting" is an integral piece of their puzzle as is condemning passive thread stealing, which I'm not attempting to do, only make aware of the real much larger issue here

Yeah beat it. There are political threads elsewhere. Don't need this crap detracting from actual information.

 

[Schaaf]

Glasgow Regional Meeting was last night and was attended by about 25 citizens with about 15 employees. From the Director's Office was Hank Worsech, Dustin Temple, Quentin Kujala, Deb O'Neill. and 8-10 of R6 Employees. Chairwoman Leslie Robinson was in attendance as well as Senator Mike Lang.

Hank started off with addressing the Crossbow Issue and stated what we all knew, Senator Molnar and 3 others sued Montana FWP. Worsech stated that he will be opposing crossbows during the archery season, he is not opposed to crossbow use during other times of the year but he feels that they add an advantage during the archery season. He made reference to possibly including them in the muzzleloader season or keeping them in the rifle season as is. Albus spoke up that he had no problem with either crossbow or muzzleloader but that it was insane to have it in December and that he wished we would swap the last two weeks of the General Rifle season for a primitive season of Muzzleloader/Crossbow. There was widespread agreement with that sentiment throughout the crowd. Hank also talked about possibly involving the social media and digital relations team to highlight the avenues disabled people already have in the Permit to Modify Archery Equipment.

Worsech then moved to the regulation simplification and talked about how he views the process going, he said there have been many rumors floating around on Hunt Talk tried his best to convey that it was a regional approach and not a top down approach. He moved into talking about getting rid of Cow Permits, Region 6 has a cow permit, 698-00, that is very popular and many citizens spoke up against getting rid of that due to the draw odds and harvest rates compared to the draw Elk B licenses.

There was some discussion about too many nonresidents and Hank brought up that any decrease to nonresidents would mean an increase in resident license prices. Most in the group supported Resident price increases.

I asked Worsech if he could speak to the rumor of a push from the Director's office to move limited entry elk permits to OTC General. He asked if I read that on Hunt Talk. I responded that it was a well traveled rumor that was confirmed to me in the R6 Missouri Breaks Elk Working Group by the staff that stated unprovoked they were not going to be moving over the objective units towards over the counter. Worsech said it was something that was brought up from his office, to look at these units that are over the objective and see if there is a biological reason that they are limited entry and if not possibly move them to general. He asked about the issues hunters would have with that. I informed him that is a wildly unpopular idea with hunters because limited draw units provide the only decent elk hunting in the state, I referenced our harvest rate in general units vs Wyoming and attributed the contrast due to our liberal season structures pushing elk off public and that moving this direction in these areas would further create an environment of public lands void of elk.

Worsech brought up HB505 on his own and stated that it was something he thought was a good idea to help alleviate some elk issues. He went on to say that it was something that he was going to continue to push forward with as a tool to help get units that are over objective down to the objective number. Quentin spoke up and said that some of these units are 800% over objective. I added that it was worth noting that the objective numbers were not biologically based and based off of social figures set nearly two decades ago, I referenced some of the breaks units around Glasgow that had objective numbers that were roughly 300 animals in Unit 700 with roughly 700,000 acres of public land. Hank continued on that when HB505 was introduced they didn't have a lot of time to vet the bill and did the best with what they had and that his main concern was that people were going to call it Ranching For Wildlife. I asked him to elaborate on why he thought it was different from RFW because from my perspective the only difference was that in RFW the landowner is required to provide access to hunters, which 505 didn't. Hank let Quentin speak up that the main difference in their opinion is it encouraged cooperation between hunters and landowners to work together to get units to objective. I said it 's hard to take their word of cooperation and not to see an obvious double standard when the sponsor of the bill said the quiet part out loud and had a direct quote of "if these objective numbers are too low and if landowners want to participate than landowners can get together and get the objective raised." Quentin responded with that he understood where I was coming from but if we wanted to see objectives higher, wouldn't that be a silver lining to get the objectives increased? I stated that hunters are "exhausted of being treated like peasants and not being allowed to access land in supposed elk distribution issue units during the general season while bull hunts are being sold and then expected to come in and mop up cows during January and February." The discussion on 505 seemed to end after that with mutual disagreements.

Hank then talked a little bit about the Pheasant release program ahead of the youth hunt this fall. He said it was an opportunity to use legislatively mandated pheasant release dollars (I don't know if this is correct?) and use it towards their R3 efforts for youth. They had multiple employees speak up about how these pheasants are more wild than regular pen-reared pheasants and that they don't know how they will do in the wild but they have higher hopes. One local spoke up and said that everyone that raises pheasants says theirs behave like wild pheasants and that you can't distinguish between the two. He said when he raised pheasants years ago, he'd release them and about 3 days later you'd see pheasant feather bombs all over. Overall there was general feeling of apathy towards the pheasant release with most people accepting it for what it was, an attempt to get a bird in a youth hunter's pocket. One hunter wanted to know how they were going to measure whether or not the program was a success by tracking the youth hunters as they grow older. McKean spoke up and cautioned that as a hunting instructor the most dangerous first experience can be an upland bird hunt with inexperienced hunters and he was curious if they were going to be distributed widely or if there was going to be a hunt roster type of format to make certain there wouldn't be too many people in one area. Worsech stated he wants to implement a hunt roster for it because of the perceived interest from the public.

It was winding down but I brought up how we seem to prioritize taking more from the well but eventually you have to give back to the well, I asked Hank if he could speak to how Habitat Montana fared through the legislature and what the Director's Office and Gianforte's position was going forward on conservation easements, highlighting the success of the last few years of easements in our area including Whiskey Ridge, Ash Coulee, Horse Creek, and many others. Hank let Dustin Temple answer and Dustin said that Habitat Montana came through the legislature beautifully and that they were also going to get a huge revenue increase from the Marijuana legalization. He went on to say that the director's office is continuing to push forward with easements and that the Governor and the Director's Office was fully on board with the potential Big Snowy WMA and that they hope to push it through. Temple listed off the easements currently moving forward, I asked him about the Lost in Time Easement in Eastern Montana. Dustin said it was currently at a hang up and it's future was unknown because the Gianforte Administration does not want to move forward on easements in counties without county commissioner and local support. I told Dustin to not confuse county commissioner support with local support and that the Lost in Time Complex was the largest Block Management Area in a 4 county area during the 90's and up to about 2008, it was where I shot my first deer and hunters from Glendive, Baker, Wibaux, and Terry spent a ton of time hunting and that particular easement has overwhelming local support.

I know someone was recording audio of the entire meeting, if I missed anything or I find any relevant quotes I will add them back in here.


From my perspective, Hank seems to be fully on board with a few issues that I think would be beneficial to the state 10 years from now and I think these are attainable in this years season setting.

• Mandatory harvest reporting
• Making hunters pick a region to hunt
  • I got the impression that would begin as Nonresidents but potentially expand to Residents
• Making hunters that draw a limited permit, hunt only that area
  • Similar to how it is done with some Mule Deer permits