More road closures

[dan.kirkpatrick]

well shoots strait,,,your cat kill chart appears to be correct but what isnt told is that oregons cat population used to be very low back in the good ol days,,,from what ive found they were below 500 total back in the 60,s,,,ever since the hound ban in 1986 the cat population has exploded to 3000 by 1994 and now have grown to over 7000 today,,,I dont know about you but I would rather see less cats and more deer and elk in our woods,,,again this is about forest service road closures,,,not about oregons debackle and mis management of there deer and elk herds by odfw,,,.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

jose::: the last pair of usa danners I bought ended up leaking like a siv v and danner ended up not warranting them,,,I was gonna give them 1 more try with the pronghorns but i dont know if ill buy danners anymore,,,and yes i will check the tag.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

I would rather eat deer and elk verses eating cat,,,,wouldnt you?

 

[shoots-straight]

Shoots was right, Dan was wrong.

well shoots strait,,,your cat kill chart appears to be correct but what isnt told is that oregons cat population used to be very low back in the good ol days,,,from what ive found they were below 500 total back in the 60,s,,,ever since the hound ban in 1986 the cat population has exploded to 3000 by 1994 and now have grown to over 7000 today,,,I dont know about you but I would rather see less cats and more deer and elk in our woods,,,again this is about forest service road closures,,,not about oregons debackle and mis management of there deer and elk herds by odfw,,,.

No Dan, it's really easy, all you have to do is say.

Shoots, you were right, I was wrong! The reason we got into lions was that there isn't going to be a big reduction in their populations. Do you see a hound season coming pretty soon? You said also that "

all we gotta do is get rid of our imnaha wolf packs that are federally protected and knock down our couger predation problem thats wiping the elk out,,,,roads have nothing to do with that issue,,

That aint happening, trust me. In fact your going to have more, way more.

BTW, how about a link to Oregons mountain lion populations and trends.

Predator control isn't a long term solution. It cost too much money to hire Federal trappers, year in and year out. Cats, and wolves are too prolific of breeds for that to happen.

So with that in mind, you can either choose to fight the road closures or not. If everything goes well for you, and you win. Then your elk and deer populations will continue downward, (because the human pressure won't let up) until you have to go to permits to hunt elk and deer. Include in that shorter seasons with less opportunity.

I don't live in Oregon, nor do I see myself ever hunting there, but it doesn't make sense to keep all those roads just so lazy hunters can kill little 2 year old bulls every 7 years.

I don't like paying for the maintenance to keep all those miles of roads in service.

Dan, I'm in favor of having access, to all areas. Just make it harder to get to the game. Give them sanctuaries to live in.

 

[shoots-straight]

BTW, I found a link: http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/cougar/cougarPLAN-Final.pdf

Cougars are an Oregon success story. After being nearly eliminated by the mid-1960s, today they have a healthy population. The current cougar population in Oregon is estimated to be more than 5,700.
As both the cougar and human populations have grown, so have the number of conflicts and damage complaints. This management plan is designed to address the conflicts between the growing numbers of cougars and humans.
This plan establishes a minimum desirable cougar population of at least 3,000. It does not set a targeted cougar population level or a ceiling. The number of cougars in Oregon may exceed 3,000 as they do today, but the draft plan calls for managing no fewer than 3,000 cougars.
ODFW works within the framework of the law. Oregonians have twice said through initiative petition that hounds may not be used to hunt cougars, and the Legislature and Governor have agreed with that stance. This plan abides by that determination.
However, existing law does allow federal and state employees to use the full range of management tools, including hounds and snares but not including poison, to deal with cougars that are causing human, pet or livestock conflicts. ODFW will continue to respond to safety and damage complaints. Problem cougars that pose a risk to humans, pets or livestock will be humanely euthanized.
This plan follows the same prescription as other management plans by incorporating specific actions to deal with conflict while maintaining recreational – hunting and viewing – opportunities.
As is the case with all similar wildlife management plans, the costs of cougar management are funded by the sales of hunting licenses and tags.

I highlighted the number that's important. Regardless of whether you have hounds or not, they will only let the lion numbers go as low as the 3,000 number. So you don't have them nor wolves to deal with yet.
Now what? 6 day seasons, and 1 every 3 year draw. Good luck in your pursuit. At least you'll be able to ride that ATV anywhere you want too.

 

[shoots-straight]

I would rather eat deer and elk verses eating cat,,,,wouldnt you?

You better like cat, that's what for dinner in Oregon. LOL. ATV's will help hunting them. Good luck.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

we are already down to very short seasons,,,how does 4 or 5 days sound to you???when and how oregon can figure out how to get the cat population back down to the 3000 range is when our deer and elk will have a chance of a comeback,,,controlled tag draw???weve already had that for years,even for spike only tags believe it or not,,,there are only a few units left that are a general hunt,,,,as ive said wwnf already has some of oregons largest wilderness areas for those who hoof it,,,whats next,???,,limiting horses in the wilderness because of too much trail errosion? It will never end.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

the couger success story is another way of saying our cats are out of control,,,at the loss of our deer and elk herds,,,If 7000 cats in oregon make a kill once every 5 days times 365 days a year that is one heck of alot of deer and elk,,,road closures will not even touch that statistic,,,and yes oregon,,,cats are our dinner of the future.

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

I still cannot get the wwnf link to work and show us"general public" the roads and areas they want to close,,,if anybody can get a good proposed map up we could all see what they are wanting to close.

 

[Oak]

There are links to 8 maps at the bottom of the page.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/wallowa-whitman/landmanagement/projects/?cid=stelprdb5348274

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

WWNF has put a hold on there travel plan now thanks to senater ron wyden"believe it or not" and senater greg walden {R}and lots of people raising cane about this much closure of our public lands,,

 

[Straight Arrow]

Semantics, terminology and conservation confusion:

Restrictions on or reclamation of primitive wildland roads does NOT mean "closure of our public lands."

Enhancement or acquisition of wildlife habitat does not mean "federal land grab."
Habitat lost to roaded development during the past several decades will never be recovered to previous levels. If we don't protect what roadless areas we now have in the western states, then within our lifetime the western wildlife habitat will resemble the eastern states (ie: not so much habitat for elk, but plentiful and expansive parking and driving opportunity).

Furthermore, if you are opposed to enhancement of roadless habitat for elk and acquisition of habitat for elk and other wildlife, then fundamentally you are opposed to the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation's mission. That is your perogative, but in my opinion not in the best interests of the hunting tradition.

 

[shoots-straight]

I was reading yesterday, that 98% of the land mass in the US is within 2 miles of a motorized travel area.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I was reading yesterday, that 98% of the land mass in the US is within 2 miles of a motorized travel area.

That other 2 percent needs to be opened up to fatassed ATV riders!

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

beins all the rucus around here is about wallowa/whitman n f,,,I just heard that the dechutes/ochoco is tryin to slip in a major road closure also in oregon,,,they are tryin to slip under the radar as everyone is focused on wwnf closures,,,,Its all about the forest service,,,as they are tryin to cram this down our throats with not enough public input.Its our public land,,,I think the forest service has forgotten what public lands are to be used for.

 

[have gun will travel]

Again a few bad apples ruin it for it every one! Now i hunt 99%in on foot but my father who tought me how to hunt is handicapped in his later years so guess his hunting days should be over? And he always stayed on designated roads or routes. Just think in second your days of getting around with ease could be over! guess you cant do the things you love the most anymore! Tough break.

 

[mtmiller]

I forget, how many miles of road will still be open?

 

[dan.kirkpatrick]

if you look at some of the many maps,there is alot that they want to shut down,,,one area in particular in starkey unit will close about 3/4 of the roads on the map,,,now im not fully against some closures,,,just this current plan they want to implement is way far much getting closed down IMO.there are several maps as wwnf is very big.

 

[mtmiller]

What is an "appropriate" percentage of closure that you would agree with?

 

[shoots-straight]

Again a few bad apples ruin it for it every one! Now i hunt 99%in on foot but my father who tought me how to hunt is handicapped in his later years so guess his hunting days should be over? And he always stayed on designated roads or routes. Just think in second your days of getting around with ease could be over! guess you cant do the things you love the most anymore! Tough break.

Doesn't Oregon have handicapped accessible areas? There are many locked gate roads across the nation that are set aside for the handicap. All you need is a doc's signature in most cases.