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More On Wilderness/and access

Muledeer4me

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Clark Collins: Wilderness too restrictive





Clark Collins

["Once again Idaho´s wilderness advocates are pushing for wilderness designation of more of our public land. And once again they are attempting to mislead the public into believing that wilderness designation is necessary to “preserve this area for future generations.”
The Boulder-White Clouds is the hot issue in this debate, despite the fact it is already congressionally designated as the Sawtooth National Recreation Area (SNRA). The area has been shared, and protected, by diverse recreational interests since receiving that designation.

It is in central Idaho, near the Frank Church and Sawtooth Wilderness areas, so there is no shortage of wilderness in the area. The only justification for wilderness designation is this: it´s what wilderness advocates want.

Unfortunately, the SNRA enabling legislation requires that wilderness recommendations for the area be made to Congress. Congressman Mike Simpson has chosen to act on those recommendations. The BlueRibbon Coalition is working with Simpson to ensure that the current recreation access is preserved in that area.

In past wilderness deliberations, Idaho recreationists have done their best to prevent designation of the areas we use. We´ve lost access with each new wilderness designation and have never been offered anything in return. The congressman has stated that our recreation access will be protected in the Boulder-White Clouds and that he will back us to get a more user friendly “backcountry” designation for some other lands in central Idaho.

Idaho recreationists should not be expected to sacrifice their access on the alter of wilderness designation. The boundaries for any wilderness proposal for the Boulder-White Clouds must be drawn so that trails used by recreation interests who aren´t allowed in wilderness are outside of the designated area. Any legislation proposing additional wilderness designation in Idaho should include backcountry designation for some other areas as part of the package. It´s time for consideration of a new designation that preserves the backcountry character so important to a broad range of recreational interests. What is backcountry designation?

• Backcountry´s first priority is to actually protect the environment and protect the character of the land.

• Backcountry would allow reducing excessive fuel loads from overstocked stands or bug killed trees that often lead to catastrophic wildfires that devastate the environment and take decades for recovery. These catastrophic wildfires wipe out all wildlife and fish, and devastate watersheds for at least a decade.

• Backcountry would allow the most efficient methods of trail maintenance, which protects the environment, while protecting and preserving important access routes.

• Backcountry will be inclusive, rather than exclusive and encourage tolerance and diversity. Backcountry would allow responsible use of mountain bikes, trail bikes, SUVs, snowmobiles and other mechanized and motorized means that many Americans enjoy.

• Backcountry will encourage all citizens to appreciate and enjoy their public lands and build support for proper management and funding for land managing agencies.

• Backcountry designation will hopefully end the practice of wilderness advocates coming back every decade or so and asking for more wilderness designations in areas already negotiated in earlier wilderness campaigns.

Idaho recreationists have done a good job of caring for, and sharing, the Boulder-White Clouds. The very qualities that wilderness advocates say make it worthy of congressional designation are testimony to that fact. Any proposal for wilderness designation here must treat recreationists fairly. The proposal must preserve our natural resources for the public instead of from the public. "]

Edition Date: 01-27-2003
 
Here's to more wilderness! The Salmon river is god's country and i love it that way. Not place in the lower 48 more wild and I love to hunt and pick up elk/deer sheds there.

Im glad you ATV freaks are "locked out" mulebutt.
 
RockyDog,
You are way to militant. You are intitled to an opinion but you sure don't have to be beligerent with the name calling and hostile attitude. Lightn up son.
 
RockyDog for president!

Wilderness designation doesn't mean you don't have "access." It just means to the lazy ATVers will either have to A) break the law to get to the good spots, or B) prefer to sit at home because walking or managing the stock will be too ambitious of an ordeal for them.

By the way, Is Fruitland a real town in Idaho? What was the high school mascot there? I can only imagine.
Meanwhile.. the folks that really want to get there and enjoy it.. will be there with BIG SMILES.
 
Make that 2 votes for RockyDog, even the mulebutt part.

You cant have too much wilderness.
 
With all the public land access for ATVs now the lazy, fat assed ATV crowd still isn't happy. They wanta drive into the Wilderness Areas because that's where the good trophy hunting is and spoil those areas too. Why the hell do those fat, out of shape, roadhuntin' dingbats think the trophies are where ATVs aren't allowed,anyway?
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They sure can't stand the idea of not being able to drive everywhere, can they?! Tells me how sluggish and shiftless they are.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-27-2003 19:02: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
what a bunch of pricks
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It's not that I disagree with you either,
It is the attitude, and the way you all use a broad brush to paint your picture of the world.
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Get off your moral high horse. Not everybody who has an atv is trashing eveything.
hell ithaca owns half of one, Which half is still unclear.
But from everything I have gathered about ithaca I'm sure it's the rear end
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Cry me a river ya pussy!

Ive sat back and read your posts for long enough to know that you and MuleDeer4Me deserve any chit you get.

Barry Twardoski
Florence, Montana

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 10:07: Message edited by: RockyDog ]</font>
 
Umm,
I wonder if the rules ithaca rants about apply here?
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You deffinently show your maturity level
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Keep up the good work, makes it easier to show what fools you are..
 
LOL I have nothing against wilderness areas.
But I agree with alot of others in that I think we have enough .
The Bolder White Clouds are already protected from development,as they should be.
Big difference in wilderness area's that limit human activity over backcountry where some motorized access is still allowed.

This isnt only a hunting issue,alot of the people in the blueribbon coalition dont hunt but are into other forms of recreation.
Alot of them ride motorcycles not ATVs.
I got into it when I owned both horse's and motorcycle's,it was good to see other people that had an open mind when it comes to other people.
You guys are confusing the issue because of your hate.
It is possible to limit and place restrictions on ATV's or motorized access for hunters,and on that issue most of us are in agrement------what has become very clear is the lack of respest some of you have for other hunters/firearm owners.
Make the people in general!!!!!
You guys have a long way to go and a big battle in your effort to ban them all.
Now if you decide to get real and be reasonable im sure good things could happen.
LOL
One thing for sure all this ranting and raving about the ATVs just puts more money into org. that support multipal use ---
I just wrote another check to send in to the blueribbon coalition.
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I think ill double it in the name of Rockydog,Ithaca & Buzz ,The blueribbon Coalition thanks you guys.
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ohhh, now that people are speaking up who silently watched you and mike spew all your BS youve suddenly become miss congeniality.
 
The thing I like about the wilderness designation is the level of protection it provides for the habitat and the animals that depend on it. There's no quota on how many people can use wilderness, just on how they can access it.
 
I sat back and read all the post here is my thoughts on this. I think there are places that may need to be wilderness so long as there is still plenty of open land. There are lots of hunters that do not have the time or the equipment to hunt these . As far as ATV uses i think most hunters are very responsible riders, you are always going to have the slob hunter that hunts from his ATV or rides it cross country most states have off road regs the problem is enforcement. I think all ATV should have to be licensed with a plate big enough to read from a distance then we could turn them in. ATVs have a place used for getting you in and to pick up your game not to hunt from unless you are handicaped THERE ARE ENOUGH ROADS DON'T MAKE NEW ONES. I will not drive around standing water because i know the next guy will see my tracks then you have a new road the more grass you tear up the less food for deer & elk a little here and there means acres lost
 
Great post jigmaker.
1Pointer ,protection of an area is great but I dont think it has to be classed as wilderness to have protection for it.
The boulder White clouds have that protection now,so the way some of us see it there is no reason to now class it as wilderness and place more restrictions on people that have been using the area (that by the way is said to be in great shape)
There are trails that are being used by different groups right now so we they arent asking for new trails to be built.


[Quote from Ithaca}
"They wanta drive into the Wilderness Areas because that's where the good trophy hunting is and spoil those areas too. Why the hell do those fat, out of shape, roadhuntin' dingbats think the trophies are where ATVs aren't allowed,anyway?'

That statement isnt even true,first off I havent seen where there is a push to get trails built into any wilderness areas to allow access!!!!
The parts I have been in werent even suited for that type of riding,and we chose to go there because of the wilderness desagation.
Most people understand the need for wilderness desagnation .
On that second statement Ithaca made concerning trophys only being in the wilderness area!!!
I dont think that's the whole truth either.
I would bet we can find many trophy animals taken outside of the wilderness area's.
In fact didn't Ithaca hunt up north ?Holding out for a trophy buck? Wasnt it outside the wilderness area?
So why Ithaca if all the trophys are only in the wilderness area would you bother to hunt outside of one?
Im not really into trophy hunt so im not the best one to judge but,
The ones we have on our wall while im sure dont hold up to some peoples standards I call Trophys and none were taken in wilderness area's.
 
Trophys are what you call them I have the 1st pheasant my dad got while hunting with me i had never hunted them before thats a trophy to me. My first deer a 3 point western count trophy to me. maney of you have seen the pics of all my mounts there all trophys to me. What classifies a trophy? A record book? I don't think so. Don't get me wrong i like my mounts but the hunt and being with friends and family hunting or fishing together is what realy counts getting something is the iceing on the cake
 
Of course all the trophy animals (I mean high B&C scoring animals, not just the ones that a hunter considers a trophy ) aren't in Wilderness areas, but that's where you have the best chance of finding one, especially elk, mule deer, bighorn sheep, moose, mountain goats, bear and lions. As for where I hunt whitetails, it's a whole different situation and MD4M doesn't know any more about big whitetails than she knows about ethical ATV riding.
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And before you get all excited about trophy designations, I agree that a trophy is in the eye of the beholder, but to make the B&C trophy category it has to be over a minimum score.

<FONT COLOR="#800080" SIZE="1">[ 01-28-2003 18:45: Message edited by: Ithaca 37 ]</font>
 
Wilderness areas are wilderness areas, they should stay non motorized including power tools even during fires, maintaining or making new wilderness trails, that has been the rules and the norm for as long as I have been going into them, the name calling is only showing ones own ignorance, if you can't come up with a decent argument for the debate, then you lose by default, I figure more on the board are a little more intelligent than that, lets see your intelligence not your ignorance.
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