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More garbage MT bills - HB281 E-bikes aren't motorbikes

Good to see it died. Drew my dream elk tag this year and starting to plan my hunt. Hoping I don't hike miles back only to run into people on the Ebikes blowing out the elk. OnX says trails are open to hike, bike, and horses.
Just be aware that on Federal lands, Federal policy impacts this more than any state level decisions. Forest Service (USDA) has clearly stated they consider e-bikes to be motorized vehicles and are only allowed where motorized vehicles are permitted. BLM (DOI) has taken the opposite view and have ruled that certain classes of e-bikes should be considered bikes and therefore permitted anywhere regular bikes are permitted. That being said, they’ve left it up to the local land managers to implement specific guidelines on this as part of their land management plans, and the general consensus is that until the local land managers do that, then the older guidance that they are motorized should prevail.

So bottom line is that on DOI/BLM there’s some gray area that might lead to various interpretations since there’s final rule making recorded in the Federal Register that states certain classes of e-bikes are considered bikes vs. motorized vehicles on BLM. In addition, the Montana/Dakotas land manager might issue their implementation of the rule before hunting season, which might have some restrictions and limitations, but would likely open up quite a bit of BLM to e-bikes.

Here’s some information on the BLM rule:

AFAIK, MT FWP has not issued any policy regarding e-bikes. So whether you can use them on state lands or not could be another area where there would be differing interpretations. From a DMV perspective, they are considered bikes in MT, not motorcycles.
Montana law (61-8-102, MCA) defines e-bikes, or “electrically assisted bicycles” as a bicycle with two operational pedals with a motor attached propels the bicycle and a rider who weighs 170 pounds no faster than 20 miles an hour. Essentially, for the purposes of regulation and enforcement, an e-bike is treated as a bicycle. The state does not require license or registration. And e-bikes may be ridden on roadways and bicycle paths.

I’m not advocating any particular side here. I know some folks feel pretty strongly about this issue and want to believe that “non-motorized means non-motorized”. But the reality of the situation is that there are contradictory and confusing rules, regulation and guidance from the various government agencies that result in it not being that clear cut. My gut says that at the federal level BLM land managers and eventually Forest Service will be forced to align on certain classes of e-bikes being treated as regular bikes which would open up their usage on all non-Wilderness federal lands. States will do their own thing for state lands, and could potentially implement specific hunting regs that disallow e-bikes for hunting, even on Federal land. If I were lobbying against them, I would focus on that last point as the most viable way to keep as many of them as possible out of my hunting area.
 
Harley would summarize this with about three words. We would have to look up two of those words to understand their meaning, but we would all nod our heads in agreement even if it was just out of fear of appearing ignorant.

“Nobody deserves an elk. Earn it like everyone else. Your want doesn’t justify making it easier.”
Where do llamabots fit into this narrative?
 
Well that'll get more ebikes out in the mountains 🙄
Saw a couple this year behind closed gates while hunting, and it was quite annoying. Especially annoying when some law enforcement would enforce the law and some wouldn't.
Turns out Missoula ebike dealers are telling everyone they are legal behind closed gates.
 
Interesting. So if it passes, a guy could go buy a $1500 ebike and then get a $900 tax credit... Essentially making a $1500 bike only really cost them $600...
No. If they buy a $3,000 to $4,000 e bike and make $75,000 or less annually they can get a $900 tax credit. Just another dumb subsidy we can't afford. But it has to pass the Senate first.
 
No. If they buy a $3,000 to $4,000 e bike and make $75,000 or less annually they can get a $900 tax credit. Just another dumb subsidy we can't afford. But it has to pass the Senate first.

Provincial lens engaged. ;)

The tax credit is generally aimed towards urban environs & their citizens. Getting people to abandon cars for Ebikes & EV's is the goal. Same with transitioning fleet vehicles & public transpo to EV.

At some point, there has to be an incentive to make it work, or we're stuck in the same stupid loop we've been in since the gas crisis of the 70's.
 
No. If they buy a $3,000 to $4,000 e bike and make $75,000 or less annually they can get a $900 tax credit. Just another dumb subsidy we can't afford. But it has to pass the Senate first.
That's stupid. I don't see anyone ditching their car for an ebike. One can be used in the rain and winter, one can't be used in those conditions by most people.
 
Provincial lens engaged. ;)

The tax credit is generally aimed towards urban environs & their citizens. Getting people to abandon cars for Ebikes & EV's is the goal. Same with transitioning fleet vehicles & public transpo to EV.

At some point, there has to be an incentive to make it work, or we're stuck in the same stupid loop we've been in since the gas crisis of the 70's.
What's wrong with non subsidize, zero carbon, old fashioned pedal power?😉
 
What's wrong with non subsidize, zero carbon, old fashioned pedal power?😉

We're the nation that orders a double quarter pounder with extra cheese. You have met us all, right?

Bicycle messengers, commuters, urban dwellers of the world can make great use of E-bikes, so long as they don't ride them on non-motorized trails.
 
We're the nation that orders a double quarter pounder with extra cheese. You have met us all, right?

Bicycle messengers, commuters, urban dwellers of the world can make great use of E-bikes, so long as they don't ride them on non-motorized trails.

yeah but that's still the problem.

we're fat and eat like sh*t so sure let's subsidize something that helps people stay fat and eat like sh*t. e bikes aren't gonna solve global warming and i think chronic disease can in some contexts be more pressing.

as an aside, i'll argue there's hardly anything unhealthy about a burger once you take off the buns, peel off the fake cheese, skip the fries, and choose water over coke. but then of course why go to Whack D's at that point? ;)
 
We're the nation that orders a double quarter pounder with extra cheese. You have met us all, right?

Bicycle messengers, commuters, urban dwellers of the world can make great use of E-bikes, so long as they don't ride them on non-motorized trails.
They can buy quarter pounders, they can buy an e bike without a tax credit. They use them for work, they can write it of as a business expense.
 
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yeah but that's still the problem.

we're fat and eat like sh*t so sure let's subsidize something that helps people stay fat and eat like sh*t.

as an aside, i'll argue there's hardly anything unhealthy about a burger once you take off the buns, peel off the fake cheese, skip the fries, and choose water over coke ;)

It's a joke. But I'd counter that we actually don't know what is in a fast food company's burger patty, so I'm going to say we're running 50/50 on that. ;)

Getting companies & individuals to move to EV is the goal of this administration in an effort to reduce greenhouse gas pollution from vehicles, which is one of the largest point sources of greenhouse gasses. Courier services (both indiduals and companies) that currently use mopeds and motorcycles will now have the incentives to make that change.

the US incentivizes new technology all of the time through subsidies. A subsidy, by itself, isn't a terrible thing. It can help guide the market to better options, like when the entire nation paid to electrify rural areas in the 20th century.
 
It's a joke. But I'd counter that we actually don't know what is in a fast food company's burger patty, so I'm going to say we're running 50/50 on that. ;)

Getting companies & individuals to move to EV is the goal of this administration in an effort to reduce greenhouse gas pollution from vehicles, which is one of the largest point sources of greenhouse gasses. Courier services (both indiduals and companies) that currently use mopeds and motorcycles will now have the incentives to make that change.

the US incentivizes new technology all of the time through subsidies. A subsidy, by itself, isn't a terrible thing. It can help guide the market to better options, like when the entire nation paid to electrify rural areas in the 20th century.
There's not a lot to be gained by switching from a moped to a electric moped is there? A 50cc moped gets like 100 miles per gallon. Not really a big issue if the issue is being environmentally friendly. A lot bigger fish to fry IMO. I think the subsidy money could be better spent elsewhere.
 
It's a joke. But I'd counter that we actually don't know what is in a fast food company's burger patty, so I'm going to say we're running 50/50 on that. ;)

Getting companies & individuals to move to EV is the goal of this administration in an effort to reduce greenhouse gas pollution from vehicles, which is one of the largest point sources of greenhouse gasses. Courier services (both indiduals and companies) that currently use mopeds and motorcycles will now have the incentives to make that change.

the US incentivizes new technology all of the time through subsidies. A subsidy, by itself, isn't a terrible thing. It can help guide the market to better options, like when the entire nation paid to electrify rural areas in the 20th century.

oh i'm not anti subsidy.

but i do have a massive bone to pick with all the fatso pre-diabetic Freds rippin their e bikes up 9% grades and goin home to tell Nance to whip him up some post-workout power grub and justify that "protein shake" that's half ice cream.

can't wait to find Fred rippin into my special turkey spot on his e-bike on a closed forest service road along with all the antsy spring dirt bikers also flyin past closed gates.

so. many. bones. to. pick.

;)
 
They can buy quarter pounders, they can buy an e bike without a tax credit. They use them for work, they can write it of as a business expense.

Not if you are a dazzling urbanite working in a bustling downtown full of shops & girls in sundresses & men in florshiems & brooks brothers suits. Then you just get to work all sweaty if you ride your old-fashioned pedal-bike!
 
There's not a lot to be gained by switching from a moped to a electric moped is there? A 50cc moped gets like 100 miles per gallon. Not really a big issue if the issue is being environmentally friendly. A lot bigger fish to fry IMO. I think the subsidy money could be better spent elsewhere.

I haven't delved into the economics of it, but as fleets age, they get replaced. A subsidy that makes the EV replacement more economical than the standard replacement is likely the driving factor.
 
I'm waiting for the next dam to create the needed additional electricity to meet with these encouraged human discounts. Bah, Texas didn't have a massive electrical dump last year. Move along folks - look this way... :ROFLMAO:

I'll complain about the river that once was and the fish that once were while zipping along on my e-bike, in my e-car or e-truck.

Nuclear energy is the way to go.

armageddon-smile.gif
 
I'm waiting for the next dam to create the needed additional electricity to meet with these encouraged human discounts. Bah, Texas didn't have a massive electrical dump last year. Move along folks - look this way... :ROFLMAO:

I'll complain about the river that once was and the fish that once were while zipping along on my e-bike, in my e-car or e-truck.

Nuclear energy is the way to go.

armageddon-smile.gif


Texas's problem was they went full Ayn Rand on their grid. There would have been plenty of energy if TX would have stayed on the national grid, and didn't incentivize profit over service. TX is the prime example of why deregulation is a boondoggle.

But absolutely, the need for more generation is going to be large. Nuclear, wind, solar, geothermal in scalable micro-grids can be an answer, especially in rural areas or areas where development can be conjoined with energy production.

Hydro makes sense in some very limited areas where there are no real conflict with wildlife or negative ecological effects, but on your side of the divide, you've got salmon, bull trout, etc to think of, and elsewhere has sturgeon, etc.
 
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