shoots-straight
Well-known member
It's stupid comments like that, which made your dad state, "Paul the best part of you ran down your mothers leg"
More Games From the USFWS at the Bison Range
- Thread starter BigHornRam
- Start date
It's stupid comments like that, which made your dad state, "Paul the best part of you ran down your mothers leg"
Come on now SS...
State your case and don't degrade it with name calling, this is turning out to be a good thread
I've been to a number of the meetings involving bringing back Bison to their home ranges, one of the first times I posted it here, and there was a decent uproar about it never happening
But what the heck, I for one would like to see it happen, it would open up more hunting opportunities in the state, bring in more dollars to the Fish and Game and would be one more bit of wild life to witness on my cross country treks that will start again once I get back north
State your case and don't degrade it with name calling, this is turning out to be a good thread
I've been to a number of the meetings involving bringing back Bison to their home ranges, one of the first times I posted it here, and there was a decent uproar about it never happening
But what the heck, I for one would like to see it happen, it would open up more hunting opportunities in the state, bring in more dollars to the Fish and Game and would be one more bit of wild life to witness on my cross country treks that will start again once I get back north
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I also stuck my fingers in my nose turned it up and stuck out my tounge when I said my little jab at ramsass.
Unless you own a WHOLE lot of acreage, you'll find bison much harder to manage than cattle. It's very difficult to keep them where you want them unless they want to be there. Though I like the idea of free-ranging bison, I'm not aware of too many places that are set up with the acreage, resources, and ownership patterns that would allow this to work.
I believe a NEPA document would have to be completed for this type of action. I have no idea where USFWS may have enough ground to grow free ranging bison, but I'm guessing they could get it done inside a fence.
shoots-straight
Well-known member
Missouri Breaks, ever heard of it?
Yep, I've heard of it. I've actually been through/near it. But IIRC looking at a map the refuge is more linear than broad. What I mean is that I don't recall it extending too terribly far from the river corridor. Also, the checkerboarded ownership bordering the refuge will cause problems.
But, I would say that the CMR and the new monument up near Havre would be as likely places as any. But, IMO there will be lots of resistance to this.
But, I would say that the CMR and the new monument up near Havre would be as likely places as any. But, IMO there will be lots of resistance to this.
I don't remember elk being transplanted expected to stay put when they were moved to new areas...
Same goes for wolves, grizzlies (No matter what the public was told), turkeys and any other wild animals being repopulated into new space
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I once saw where the Missouri breaks and sourounding ecosystem contained somthing like 1 million acres. That's enough to have a wild free ranging buffalo herd. Now Nemont's might differ with me here, but alot of the private lands mixed with BLM that surround the area arn't very fertile, and grow as low a 6 bushels per acre, now I'm talking at my ass a little here, but if I remember right that just covers the seed.... Now we (tax-payers) Subsidize the rest to somthing like 30 bushels, couldn't we just pay them to not grow anything, let the bison run free, or come up with a buyout plan all together...
A buyout outright might be cheaper than the subsidy over a long period.
Some ranches in the area, are definitely viable and would never give in.. you would have many benifits to having bison ranging in the area. Tourism for one. Hunting, opps for another.
A buyout outright might be cheaper than the subsidy over a long period.
Some ranches in the area, are definitely viable and would never give in.. you would have many benifits to having bison ranging in the area. Tourism for one. Hunting, opps for another.
Nemont
Well-known member
SS,
Look at a map of the CMR.
There is a huge issue with the fact that the USFWS could not possibly control or keep bison just on the CMR. This is due to the fact that a rather large body of water splits the CMR in half. Also very little if any grain is grown around the breaks you have to get fairly far away from lands controlled by the USFWS to find much of any farming. Rather then pulling something out of your ass and talking about farming why not get out a map and look at the surrounding BLM land? It is not farming interests that would be fighting a bison transplant, it would be those holding grazing alottments.
I spend alot of time out in that country and I think if you could combine the CMR proper with surrounding BLM controlled lands then you are talking an appropriate area for free ranging bison. Now explain to me how you accomplish all that: Getting At least Two agencies, cattle ranchers, politicians, hunters, radicals on both sides, freemen, etc etc all together. I just don't see all that coming together in time to transplant any bison from the NBR to the CMR. But if you think it is possible please explain.
I am not opposed to free ranging bison. It is just that the CMR, by itself, is not the most viable place to put them.
Nemont
Look at a map of the CMR.
Extending 125 airline miles up the Missouri River from Fort Peck Dam in north-central Montana, the Charles M. Russell National Wildlife Refuge contains approximately 1,100,000 acres, including the 245,000-acre Fort Peck Reservoir. The Refuge includes native prairies, forested coulees, river bottoms, and badlands so often portrayed in the paintings of Charlie Russell, the colorful western artist for whom the refuge is named
There is a huge issue with the fact that the USFWS could not possibly control or keep bison just on the CMR. This is due to the fact that a rather large body of water splits the CMR in half. Also very little if any grain is grown around the breaks you have to get fairly far away from lands controlled by the USFWS to find much of any farming. Rather then pulling something out of your ass and talking about farming why not get out a map and look at the surrounding BLM land? It is not farming interests that would be fighting a bison transplant, it would be those holding grazing alottments.
I spend alot of time out in that country and I think if you could combine the CMR proper with surrounding BLM controlled lands then you are talking an appropriate area for free ranging bison. Now explain to me how you accomplish all that: Getting At least Two agencies, cattle ranchers, politicians, hunters, radicals on both sides, freemen, etc etc all together. I just don't see all that coming together in time to transplant any bison from the NBR to the CMR. But if you think it is possible please explain.
I am not opposed to free ranging bison. It is just that the CMR, by itself, is not the most viable place to put them.
Nemont
shoots-straight
Well-known member
I've been over there myself, I know alot of the area is grazing alotments. There is also grain grown, both don't have outstanding success. I was never talking strictly about CMR.
Missouri breaks as an eco-system, not just the refuge. BLM is Federal land.
I know that in this erra, somthing this monumental is DOA,
You put 10 people in a room from different backgrounds and you'll have 10 different oppinions on any subject.
The point is, if there was enough support for this, there's a place it could happen, and that's over there.
Nemont- Thanks for making clear some of the points I was trying to make, especially about the ownership pattern.
Shoots- Have you looked into how the state of UT got the bison put on the Henry Mtns? Might give you some ideas if you decide to try to really get this ball rolling.
Shoots- Have you looked into how the state of UT got the bison put on the Henry Mtns? Might give you some ideas if you decide to try to really get this ball rolling.
I would imagine with a combined total of more than 192 million acres (282,353 square miles) of public land managed as national forests and grasslands of FS land alone there are plenty of places to put bison
This doesn't even include different state, county and other federal lands plus Indian lands
Then one could add into this huge number, land occupied by park systems, state lands/trusts and military installations
These were taken into consideration when they started transplanting other large game animals around the U.S.
Will we have torn down fences by bison?
I am guessing so
There's lots of damage on private property by all the other transplanted animals so what’s the difference?
This doesn't even include different state, county and other federal lands plus Indian lands
Then one could add into this huge number, land occupied by park systems, state lands/trusts and military installations
These were taken into consideration when they started transplanting other large game animals around the U.S.
Will we have torn down fences by bison?
I am guessing so
There's lots of damage on private property by all the other transplanted animals so what’s the difference?
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