More Fun with Feral Horses

[Slam]

My what a mess we have created! It's amazing how we can take an issue, shake it up, throw in a mess of misguided emotion, bring in the government to pass legislation prohibiting the slaughter of equine on U.S. soil, throw 100's of $MM at it ......and still the issue is unresolved and getting worse. Sheesh. This talk of sterilization is absurd...birth control not far behind. I know it feels good to attempt to find common ground and appease those who are sensitive to the issue of population management, however, once you start down this path you get lost in the "proverbial swamp".

We have allowed special interest groups and emotion to hijack what is the Fed & State responsibility to manage our lands in best interest of all.

(an aside - in 2010 I was hunting the west side of the Stillwater drainage in the Custer lands and was approached by a federal agent at my camp, he asked if I had seen any horses running loose in the back country?? I asked if a pack string had been lost, no he said, but since the 2008 crash and the legislation prohibiting horse slaughter, people had been dumping horses (no market for them at the Billings sale), told me any I horse I see with out tack is to be shot!)

In my world of simple solutions:

1. Get the FED & State re-engaged in managing the lands that have feral equine and come up with realistic plans that can be achieved in a 5 year window.
2.Remove the "no slaughter" legislation. Equine are now being sold at sale barns and loaded on trucks and shipped to Canada and Mexico. There is a viable market for horse meat.
3. Spend some of that money identifying and removing some of those horses to be trained and used as ranch, pleasure, hunting-mountain horses. Develop the market. From what I have read, those horses generally have really good feet, stamina, and make excellent working stock.

Simple solutions from a simple mind....buyer beware.

 

[RobertD]

At this point and this is just one old woman opinion, they need to be rounded up and thinned out. not wiped out, but thinned out. Let as many as possible be "adopted", although and unfortunately more adoptions end up bad than they do good, but regardless, let that happen first and then a large majority of the older ones must be put down.

This part of your comment caught my eye, as it speaks to something I considered after reading some arguments against the adoption program.

Some horse advocates are now arguing that adoption should be discouraged or at least more heavily regulated because, they argue, too many adopted horses are ultimately bound for slaughter in Canada or Mexico.

So I wonder, have BLM officials accepted this reality? Are we now seeing a de facto "look the other way" policy that will serve as a roundabout way to thin the herds?

It's obviously more expensive to do it this way than it would be to simply euthanize in the wild, but at least this way the population can be decreased.

 

[RobertD]

Also worth checking out the comment section on this article. Remarkable that there are almost 0 "anti" horse comments. Comments are overwhelmingly slanted towards "leave the horses alone."

I tried to do my best Buzz impression and incite some healthy argument but none of the horse people take my bait.

 

[RobertD]

This is a big part of the management problem. Too many soft spots. mtmuley

And the sad part is soft hearted folks, through inaction, cause more horses and other animals to suffer than would be the case if we could humanely cull the excess horses. Path to hell paved w/ good intentions

 

[Europe]

So I wonder, have BLM officials accepted this reality? Are we now seeing a de facto "look the other way" policy that will serve as a roundabout way to thin the herds?

I think some know it and turn a blind eye. The reason I included it in my post is because that is part of their program at this time. I would eliminate the adoption program and in fact it is NOT part of our strategy at the Salt River Wild Horse Association. No Adoptions !

We were always cautious even when selling a horse or horses as most folks dont realize that the cheapest part about buying a horse is the purchase price. Hoof care, floating teeth, grooming, exercise, vet costs, tack, feed, water, transportation and what happens to the horse when the young man or woman turns 16 and get a car--in some cases the horse starts getting ignored. We have taken horses back when this happened a couple of times and others gave them back when the cost and time to properly care for a horse proved to be more than they envisioned.


I would have no problem going to a meat market and seeing beef, pork, lamb, chicken, turkey, equine, listed for sale on the same reader board. But the chances of that happening in America, is slim and none and slim has already left town.

Please remember this is just one persons opinion but IMHO------- the number of wild horse's in the west need to be reduced -- and soon .

p.s. this was recently a topic at one of the meetings and so I ask you, what do you think: Do you have a problem with reducing the herd size via shipping the older horses to Canada or Mexico to be slaughtered, since we dont have the stomach for it in the U.S. and if we did it here the meat would go to waste. ????

To be honest I enjoy arguing whether Elton or Liberace were the most " colorful" and/or "better piano player" on the music thread--but all kidding aside and again in my humble opinion, we need to do something and soon about the increasing size of the wild horse herds.

 

[PrairieHunter]

 

[VikingsGuy]

One hasto wonder how they came up with that 27000 number.

Maybe they asked a eco/biology professor from a land grant university in the midwest? You know how iffy those folks can be

 

[Slam]

April, I went to the Salt River Wild Horse Association web page and read the Mission and Long Term Plan. Kudos to being able to form a group and maintain the focus to get the project this far. I am most interested in the use of PZP as a birth control agent in managing herd size (the concept is fascinating if it works). On that note the Cuyahoga River Valley National Park (land area surrounding the Cuyahoga River as it makes its way south from Cleveland to Akron) was experiencing a significant population increase of whitetail deer that were causing problems (car crashes, residential complaints landscape damages, over browsing during winter, etc. The park opened dialogue with residents and initially were heading towards opening hunting for archery with liberal tags allocations..well, that didn't go over well. Then the discussion focused on spaying until they realized this jsut wasn't feasible and was dangerous for all involved. They then tried a birth control remedy which didn't prove satisfactory. So, now they employ "sharpshooters" to cull the population. The initial practice of shooting deer caused much public outcry but seems to have abated as people are seeing the positive results of a reduced population.

This topic of what to do has consumed quite a bit of time and discussion between myself and my mother (she made her living in the equine field) and is passionate about the wild and feral horse populations. I argue for solutions, she for compassion. The discussion always ends when I ask what is best for ecosystem? If we were to take "horse" out of the argument and substitute with goat, sheep, cattle, elk...would the solution be looked at differently?

 

[Finalshot]

I think this quote speaks volumes to the level of the issue:

So, with few natural predators and without BLM management, wild horse populations double every four to five years. The carrying capacity of their Western range is fewer than 27,000 horses and burros, but as of March 2021, there were an estimated 86,189 animals on that range.

and the number, in reality, is likely twice that because they dont count horses on tribal reservations.

 

[Europe]

Agreed! I don’t prefer them over other species like elk, deer, bison ect but the ones I’ve seen in the wild were something special to see running away when we bumped into groups of them.

This gentleman has a fascinating herd of wild Spanish Mustangs residing on the outer banks in his State since the 1500's. Beautiful horses. Amazing to watch them dig for fresh water and swim from island to island. The Corolla Spanish Mustangs. This is another herd that has private citizen participation and sponsorship.

This topic of what to do has consumed quite a bit of time and discussion between myself and my mother (she made her living in the equine field) and is passionate about the wild and feral horse populations. I argue for solutions, she for compassion. The discussion always ends when I ask what is best for ecosystem? If we were to take "horse" out of the argument and substitute with goat, sheep, cattle, elk...would the solution be looked at differently?

I understand. I am very interested in finding a solution that allows a limited number of horses, in any area, to co-exist with all the other wild life, without Government funding ---- i.e. Salt River, and Corolla are two that control the number of horses allowed in any given area and without Govt funding,

Like your mother I love the Horse, BUT, IMHO, we must reduce the herd sizes and do it now.

When I logged back on, it was interesting that no one had offered their opinion on allowing the "adopted" horses to go to Canada or Mexico. Maybe it is the farm girl in me, that allows me to view this in a different light. I had, as a girl, some longhorn cattle I would show at the fair, but we ate beef.

I will let you fellows take it from here, but I thank you for allowing me to express my opinion on this subject, as it is and has been, something that I have invested a bit of time and money into. . Best of luck in your areas gentlemen

 

[geetar]

This gentleman has a fascinating herd of wild Spanish Mustangs residing on the outer banks in his State since the 1500's. Beautiful horses. Amazing to watch them dig for fresh water and swim from island to island. The Corolla Spanish Mustangs. This is another herd that has private citizen participation and sponsorship.


I understand. I am very interested in finding a solution that allows a limited number of horses, in any area, to co-exist with all the other wild life, without Government funding ---- i.e. Salt River, and Corolla are two that control the number of horses allowed in any given area and without Govt funding,

Like your mother I love the Horse, BUT, IMHO, we must reduce the herd sizes and do it now.

When I logged back on, it was interesting that no one had offered their opinion on allowing the "adopted" horses to go to Canada or Mexico. Maybe it is the farm girl in me, that allows me to view this in a different light. I had, as a girl, some longhorn cattle I would show at the fair, but we ate beef.

I will let you fellows take it from here, but I thank you for allowing me to express my opinion on this subject, as it is and has been, something that I have invested a bit of time and money into. . Best of luck in your areas gentlemen

They are still down there at OBX. Kinda hate to admit I’ve seen them in Utah but not my own state.

 

[jtm307]

I'd adopt one if I had a large out building and a walk-in cooler.

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Hear me out... lions & tigers...

I know a guy...

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Seriously though, I went on one of the "wild" horse groups websites and apparently their solution is birth control and increasing mountain lion numbers via banning hunting.

Let Mountain Lions Eat Horses (Published 2018)

Wild mustangs are overrunning parts of the West. The government has failed to control them. Maybe the big cats can do a better job.

www.nytimes.com

Seem like you would need a crazy high lion population to "manage" horses solely by that means.

 

[406dn]

If lions were the answer, the problem would not exist presently. The ready supply of horse meat would have spurred a population spike in lions by now, I think.

The stalemate exists because on one side there is extreme passion and the other side less so.

I could be agreeable to culling horses, but I'm not on a mission. The wild (feral) horse lobby is on a mission.

 

[RobertD]

William, Steve Rinella offered on an episode to have that guy who wrote that mountain lion nonsense come onto the show and discuss. He did not.

And April, since you mentioned it again I realize I forgot to clarify re: horses going to Mexico or Canada. IMO I willl pack the truck driver a lunch and a thermos of coffee if it helps get them there faster.

 

[NR_Hunter]

Vet bills for horses are insane and constant. How can these horses even survive in the wild? I’m sick of them.

 

[Addicting]

Unfortunately, you can only adopt 4 in a 12 month period. The incentive is UP TO 1000 dollars. Which reads like a reimbursement. So logistics of getting one to Mexico or Canada isn’t a good business model.

Guess I will have to call back that Nigerian prince and refund him his initial investment.

 

[seeth07]

Is it legal to go out, round up a wild horse and claim it as your own?

 

[Deleted member 28227]

Unfortunately, you can only adopt 4 in a 12 month period. The incentive is UP TO 1000 dollars. Which reads like a reimbursement. So logistics of getting one to Mexico or Canada isn’t a good business model.

Guess I will have to call back that Nigerian prince and refund him his initial investment.

What if you are just a "horse herd manager" working for Nigerian Prince Horse Management Solutions LLC, and if the "adopters"; Horse 1 LLC , Horse 2 LLC , Horse 3 LLC. etc all adopt 4 horses a year, and then decide to pool resources and all contract with you use you to 'reduce overhead' and manage their horses.