More Fun with Feral Horses

[RobertD]

Outdoor Life article by Natalie Krebs published 1/28/22 on the upcoming wild horse gather, set to be the largest in history.

BLM Begins Largest Wild Horse and Burro Gather in History, Offers $1,000 Incentive to Adopt One

The Bureau of Land Management plans to gather some 22,000 wild horses, many of them for adoption, which will come with a $1,000 incentive.

www.outdoorlife.com

Worth reading just to see where the numbers stand and who's filing lawsuits. It's really something. BLM will seemingly be sued for doing literally anything other than nothing at all about these horses.

April, as always we will welcome any thoughts or comments you have on the issue.

 

[MTLabrador]

Maybe I should take advantage of this and get a string of very trustworthy pack horses. Or maybe pack burros.

 

[BrentD]

Maybe I should take advantage of this and get a string of very trustworthy pack horses. Or maybe pack burros.

Yes, you should. But beware that buying a horse is like buying a new lifestyle. Or getting married.

 

[DouglasR]

Effective management...

 

[DouglasR]

Maybe I should take advantage of this and get a string of very trustworthy pack horses. Or maybe pack burros.

These dudes break some wild mustangs and ride them from Arizona to Canada.
Kinda cool.
But at the same time...
I’d like to shoot me a horse.
When my mom was like 40 she decided she wanted to be a horse person.
I feel like that never works out.
Got my ass kicked about 10 times before I realized I’m not a cowboy.

 

[Irrelevant]

Or maybe pack burros.

Yes, then race them.

Pack burro racing - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

I think this quote speaks volumes to the level of the issue:

So, with few natural predators and without BLM management, wild horse populations double every four to five years. The carrying capacity of their Western range is fewer than 27,000 horses and burros, but as of March 2021, there were an estimated 86,189 animals on that range.

 

[BrentD]

I think this quote speaks volumes to the level of the issue:

So, with few natural predators and without BLM management, wild horse populations double every four to five years. The carrying capacity of their Western range is fewer than 27,000 horses and burros, but as of March 2021, there were an estimated 86,189 animals on that range.

One hasto wonder how they came up with that 27000 number.

 

[seeth07]

I witnessed wild horses for the first time while hunting out west this last fall in NM. It was cool to see but it didn't take long to realize and witness how territorial and destructive they were to the landscape, especially around the water holes. It was eye opening to me how much of a problem this could potentially be. We never saw an elk on this deer hunt and according to the locals we spoke with, before the horses the elk population was well and now it has taken quite the hit in that area.

 

[rwc101]

I don't like them on the landscape (especially sensitive places like the Red Desert) but they can be majestic as hell.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

One hasto wonder how they came up with that 27000 number.

Total guess, but the same way they come up with cattle carry capacity I would imagine. Probably an adjustment for how much they eat vs cattle

 

[BrentD]

Total guess, but the same way they come up with cattle carry capacity I would imagine. Probably an adjustment for how much they eat vs cattle

Doubtful, but if so, their model needs adjustment. How long have they been over "carrying capacity"?

There are other uses of the term, "social carrying capacity" may be a more appropriate term here.

 

[kwyeewyk]

How long have they been over "carrying capacity"?

Basically from the start, that's why it's such a problem, no good way to manage populations and ongoing resource damage in the meantime. Estimating forage availability and capacity can be challenging but not that hard and easy to tell when it's being overused.

 

[SD_Prairie_Goat]

Doubtful, but if so, their model needs adjustment. How long have they been over "carrying capacity"?

There are other uses of the term, "social carrying capacity" may be a more appropriate term here.

Well many cases being over carrying capacity means wildlife is who takes the hit. Horse consume all the available resources and outcompete the natural wildlife.

A piece of grass land can only support so many animals. If horses eat it all there is nothing left for elk/sheep/deer/etc.



Same scenario with invasive fish. They consume and outcompete the native species.




IMO, sterilization is the key. You'll never get the US to accept culling wild horses. But if you sterilize them, at least after a generation you can have manageable populations...

 

[bullbugle307]

They use the term Appropriate Management Level. And near as I can remember the upper and lower limits for AMLs in a Horse Management Area is set using the BLM Wild Horse and Management Handbook. Lots of griping about how they set AMLs.

It is supposed to take into account environmental factors, endangered species concerns etc... so definitely not just a "social carrying capacity".

I'm pretty far removed from my time poring over BLM stuff, somebody correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

 

[Europe]

One hasto wonder how they came up with that 27000 number.

Total guess, but the same way they come up with cattle carry capacity I would imagine. Probably an adjustment for how much they eat vs cattle

Doubtful, but if so, their model needs adjustment. How long have they been over "carrying capacity"?

There are other uses of the term, "social carrying capacity" may be a more appropriate term here.

Basically from the start, that's why it's such a problem, no good way to manage populations and ongoing resource damage in the meantime. Estimating forage availability and capacity can be challenging but not that hard and easy to tell when it's being overused.

Excellent points gentlemen !!

Robert,

this is an issue that different people and groups of people will have strong opinions about, including me. Several here will disagree with me and that is o.k., as may times in life I have learned from listening to opposing opinions, as long as the presenter of those opinions, does so politely. Sometimes 'we" humans need to just admit that we are only going to be able to agree that we disagree on a subject and leave it at that. This might be a good time to also say that I dont appreciate nasty pm, s and have discontinued reading pm,s from some posters. with all that said---

At this point and this is just one old woman opinion, they need to be rounded up and thinned out. not wiped out, but thinned out. Let as many as possible be "adopted", although and unfortunately more adoptions end up bad than they do good, but regardless, let that happen first and then a large majority of the older ones must be put down. We ( taxpayers ) are spending upward of 100 million a year to manage these herds and doing a poor job of it, again IMHO

What to do ? I can only tell you what we have done in Arizona and again IMHO, it is working and working without costing the American taxpayer a dime. The Salt River herds may not be native, but they have been there before we became a State, way before actually. As near as we can calculate around 1750-1800, which is even before my time

Rather than write it all down here, if any one is interested in what we do to manage that wild horse herd, look for the Salt River Wlld Horse Assoc and read about it on their web page, However, I will tell you this, first and foremost it is totally funded by private citizens, zero money from the Feds or State and yes the size of the herd is "maintained"

I love horses and have raised them, ridden them, used them ( ranch, hunting, rodeo ) and bred them. But I have also raised cattle, hogs, sheep, chickens, and turkeys---AND, ate them as well as used their by products. To me horse meat tastes very similar to both beef and venison, depending on the horse being eaten. Several countries around the world eat horse meat and serve it in restaurants.

I mention all the above to say, if it was up to me, I would round them up, separate all the older ones from the younger ones, let people adopt as many as they want, and slaughter the older ones, just like we do cattle, sheep, hogs, chickens--and if some are to "civilized" to eat horse meat, I bet there are some other families out there who are down on their luck that would enjoy having meat on the dinner table, whether it is--deer, cow, elk, sheep, moose, hog, caribou, or horse.

We should attempt to find sponsors for the young horses released back into the wild--i.e -- The Salt River Wild Horse herd---- granted the Govt may need to help these groups of horses and people financially from time to time, but the financial help needed would be a lot less than they are paying now. And obviously, the reduced wild horse herds would be eating less grass, therefore increasing the foliage for other wildlife .

I love the horse, I love riding them, I love seeing them in the wild, but the herds must be thinned and then controlled and if possible without taxpayers dollars.

Please remember this is just one old woman's opinion and with it and a quarter you will be able to buy absolutely nothing. I use to say my opinion and a nickel would buy you absolutely nothing, but you know inflation and all that ------

 

[406dn]

I'm old enough to have stocked frozen horse meat intended for dogs. The horse situation is long running and will be around long after I'm gone.

Feral horses and burros overgrazing an area is a problem. They also do things that benefit other animals. They are one of few species that dig wells in desert areas. So like most things it's a mixed bag.

Wild Donkeys and Horses Dig Wells That Provide Water for a Host of Desert Species

A new study finds these equine wells attracted 59 other vertebrate species, boasting 64 percent more species than the surrounding landscape

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[noharleyyet]

Viande chevaline is french for My Friend Flicka.

 

[elkduds]

Effective management...View attachment 210647

The way that muzzle is jumping around, the target is the safest thing in front of that Gatling. Maybe Alec Baldwin should get one.

 

[longrunner]