More Discounted Non-residents licenses for Montana

[BuzzH]

But our elk numbers are over objective. Ranchers are getting beat down with too many elk.

True story.

IMO, I have no question that this will be one of the first generations in a long time to leave our wildlife resources in way worse shape than we found it.

There's tons of reasons for it.

In the case of deer, there is a 100% full on push to manage for very low age class mule deer at very low buck to doe ratio's. That's the case in MT, WY, CO, UT, etc.

CWD is the excuse/reason.

Was in a meeting last week with our local biologists, and its become apparent to me that I'm simply going to have to learn to accept the fact, mule deer hunting in the West, if not the entire country, is going to be a "hunt" for 1.5-3.5 year old bucks.

The push is to "control" CWD via killing off mature bucks to keep prevalence rates lower. Also a huge desire to keep buck to doe ratio's in that 15-20 range. Between fewer total bucks and seasons structured to kill bucks over 3.5...its over for any kind of quality mule deer. Oh, sure, there will be the occasional buck that slips through the cracks, but it will be much more rare.

There is no other option is what I've been told.

Moose, sheep, goats are all worse off in most of Montana and Wyoming as well. That likely isn't going to change.

The only "bright" spot, has a huge crosshair on it (pun there), and that's elk. Even though elk are doing well in both States, they are now considered the enemy, something to eliminate. Too many of them, too many complaints, and they need removed from the landscape in significant numbers. I won't even tell you the draconian things I'm hearing to reduce them in Wyoming.

So, in a nutshell, regardless of the bitching about tag numbers, the various Departments, with the blessing of the legislature's, are not going to take the foot off the gas pedal reducing our populations, hunt quality, etc.

Attend all the meetings you want, write all the letters you want, but it's never going to get better. I'm afraid what we have now is better than what we'll have in 5 years, better than 10 years, and better than 20 years down the road.

It saddens me, but reality is what it is. IMO, best case, is we can MAYBE slow the decline, but a decline it's going to be.

What a shame that we can't just maintain what I had, and currently have...but we aren't going to.

 

[Hem]

Dismal take^, but I agree.

 

[brockel]

Was in a meeting last week with our local biologists, and its become apparent to me that I'm simply going to have to learn to accept the fact, mule deer hunting in the West, if not the entire country, is going to be a "hunt" for 1.5-3.5 year old bucks.

What a kick in the nuts that is but true. Use to be my favorite thing to hunt.

 

[antlerradar]

True story.



There is no other option is what I've been told.

There is another option, it is called lease or buy your own hunting property. FWP just can not see this unintended consequence of this type of management.

 

[BuzzH]

There is another option, it is called lease or buy your own hunting property. FWP just can not see this unintended consequence of this type of management.

About the only way as long as you can lease or buy a big enough piece that you can essentially manage the deer on your place.

 

[antlerradar]

About the only way as long as you can lease or buy a big enough piece that you can essentially manage the deer on your place.

Yep, the more FWP manages deer for opportunity and to slow the spread of CWD, the higher the demand and the bigger the price tag for quality hunting. Kind of a self defeating management strategy if you ask me.

 

[BuzzH]

Yep, the more FWP manages deer for opportunity and to slow the spread of CWD, the higher the demand and the bigger the price tag for quality hunting. Kind of a self defeating management strategy if you ask me.

I agree...it's incredibly sad, but I'm assured it's the only path forward.

My only ask of those I met with was to be honest with the public, that mule deer hunting under their proposed cwd management was 1.5-3.5 year old mule deer bucks taken in November rut hunting for 10-20 bucks per 100 does.

That's the future and I doubt it's going to change for decades, if not forever.

 

[Eric Albus]

@Eric Albus @Big Shooter curious to both your thoughts on these numbers, the trends toward nonresidents licenses, etc. and appreciate your input always with respect even though we disagree on many things I’m sure.

We don’t want/need any more NR license, and we need to limit/control/ R hunters as well.
The R hunters of Montana must unite and stand up. Demand FWP manage biologically on accessible lands. The insanity of thinking a finite resource can withstand near infinite pressure has to end.

 

[Eric Albus]

I agree...it's incredibly sad, but I'm assured it's the only path forward.

My only ask of those I met with was to be honest with the public, that mule deer hunting under their proposed cwd management was 1.5-3.5 year old mule deer bucks taken in November rut hunting for 10-20 bucks per 100 does.

That's the future and I doubt it's going to change for decades, if not forever.

I know 10-20 bucks is a bit of a stretch here in NE Mt. Maybe half fawn crop is counted as “bucks”.

I am beginning to see a very sad future for “their resource “ I say “their” because “they” manage the resource how “they” see fit. I always thought the wildlife belonged to the “people” guess I’ve been hornswaggled.

 

[Treeshark]

This discussion is about wildlife management that is funded largely from out-of-state money, lives on land that is largely funded by out-of-state money, in a state that is heavily funded by out-of-state money.

What do you guys honestly expect to keep happening here?

 

[antlerradar]

I agree...it's incredibly sad, but I'm assured it's the only path forward.

My only ask of those I met with was to be honest with the public, that mule deer hunting under their proposed cwd management was 1.5-3.5 year old mule deer bucks taken in November rut hunting for 10-20 bucks per 100 does.

That's the future and I doubt it's going to change for decades, if not forever.

I don't doubt you one bit. I am hearing the same things. The problem is this managment is only going to make the two tiered hunting opportunity we currently have even worse and at an accelerated rate. The future looks like it is going to be hunt the fence lines and hope something jumps the fence or pay to have exclusive hunting on a hunting lease.

 

[Straight Arrow]

What do you guys honestly expect to keep happening here?

Montana, the Treasure State, has provided untold resources contributed to the wealth and benefit of those "out-of-state", provided virtually all copper during the big world wars, continues to provide hunting opportunities for "out-of-staters" to view, hunt, take state held wildlife, and continues to welcome entertainment venues such as "YELLOWSTONE", which misrepresent the LAST BEST PLACE.
So, yes, as a "welfare state" of the great union of United States ... Montana expects "out-of-state" fiscal support to heavily fund wildlife management, as well as many other worthy endeavors and programs.

 

[BuzzH]

This discussion is about wildlife management that is funded largely from out-of-state money, lives on land that is largely funded by out-of-state money, in a state that is heavily funded by out-of-state money.

What do you guys honestly expect to keep happening here?

90-10 in Wyoming as things tighten up for tag availability.

I would also predict significant price increases on the 10% that will remain for NRs.

Exactly like the increases currently being proposed in hb200...

https://www.wyoleg.gov/Legislation/2023/HB0200

 

[antlerradar]

This discussion is about wildlife management that is funded largely from out-of-state money, lives on land that is largely funded by out-of-state money, in a state that is heavily funded by out-of-state money.

What do you guys honestly expect to keep happening here?

I don't disagree, The solution in Montana is to do our best to eliminate the wildlife from the land funded out-of-state money. (sarcasm emoji)

 

[BuzzH]

I don't disagree, The solution in Montana is to do our best to eliminate the wildlife from the land funded out-of-state money. (sarcasm emoji)

Treeshark will love that, he can pay a trespass fee or hire an outfitter on top of that expensive NR tag....win-win.

 

[Treeshark]

I’ve never done either of those and would prefer not to- but it doesn’t do anyone any good to ignore reality when discussing these issues.

 

[Treeshark]

I would also predict significant price increases on the 10% that will remain for NRs.

Exactly like the increases currently being proposed in hb200...

I hope like hell this part goes through, honestly, but not what this thread is about.

 

[rogerthat]

I agree...it's incredibly sad, but I'm assured it's the only path forward.

My only ask of those I met with was to be honest with the public, that mule deer hunting under their proposed cwd management was 1.5-3.5 year old mule deer bucks taken in November rut hunting for 10-20 bucks per 100 does.

That's the future and I doubt it's going to change for decades, if not forever.

I agree with this very much. So far the fish and game agencies are being fairly vague about what “cwd management” is. They need to just come clean. Watching Colorados videos makes me want to punt a bio in the nuts

 

[WIbiggame]

The push is to "control" CWD via killing off mature bucks to keep prevalence rates lower.

Don't want to derail this thread so sorry if this isn't the place.

But, why are states still trying to "controll" CWD via killing deer? CWD isn't new and managing it isn't new either. WI tried this eradication method when CWD was first found in the early 2000s. Giving out tags like candy for free and hiring shart shooters etc. Guess what it didn't do anything CWD is still in those hot bed areas. CWD is self limiting and animals will die of something else before CWD kills them. I hate that states use this as an excuse to kill all the animals.

 

[BuzzH]

Don't want to derail this thread so sorry if this isn't the place.

But, why are states still trying to "controll" CWD via killing deer? CWD isn't new and managing it isn't new either. WI tried this eradication method when CWD was first found in the early 2000s. Giving out tags like candy for free and hiring shart shooters etc. Guess what it didn't do anything CWD is still in those hot bed areas. CWD is self limiting and animals will die of something else before CWD kills them. I hate that states use this as an excuse to kill all the animals.

"We have to do something, doing nothing won't work."

I've heard it over and over again.