More damage by ranchers!!

[Ithaca 37]

".........More than a billion pounds of seafood are caught here each year, for instance, but fisheries are evaporating as erosion destroys the balance of saltwater and freshwater. In many places, the state's natural protection from storms has also vanished.


Scientists who are studying the problem — some affiliated with the state, others with local universities and industries — point to a host of potential causes. For decades, the state allowed ranchers, industries and others to dig navigation canals through marshy areas, only to realize in recent years that lasting damage had been done. Global warming (news - web sites), most scientists agree, is causing sea levels to rise, which also has contributed to the problem.


Much of the damage, however, can be tied directly to the energy industry. Scores of canals have been dug to make room for pipelines. Others, some of them 100 feet wide, were built to accommodate barges needed to steer drilling platforms into open water.


Because of the loss of marshes, numerous pipelines that were once protected by silt and vegetation — and were not built for open-water conditions — are now exposed, resting like spaghetti on the seabed in shallow water.............."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...3/ts_latimes/moneyspiedoffavanishingcoastline

 

[ringer]

PETA treehuggin' hippy puke. Have a nice day. I bet you can't tell the difference between a rancher and a salmon if they were both floppin' at yer feet.

 

[MattK]

Ithaca- It's funny how you become a PETA treehuggin' hippy puke when you cite an article about how industry (oil in this case) is ruining the environment. I like to use my car just like the next person but when it comes to a company taking a little responsibility and maybe changing the way they do things, I'm all for that also. The real problem is there are too many people out there like ringer who would rather have a dam blocking a river for small mouth bass and an atv to drive 2 feet from his downed elk. Then he turns around and says your a PETA, treehuggin.... for wanting everything for YOURSELF. It seems quite ironic to me. I guess people don't realize the value of the environment and the cost of losing it.

 

[Nemont]

Scientists who are studying the problem — some affiliated with the state, others with local universities and industries — point to a host of potential causes. For decades, the state allowed ranchers, industries and others to dig navigation canals through marshy areas, only to realize in recent years that lasting damage had been done. Global warming (news - web sites), most scientists agree, is causing sea levels to rise, which also has contributed to the problem.


Much of the damage, however, can be tied directly to the energy industry. Scores of canals have been dug to make room for pipelines. Others, some of them 100 feet wide, were built to accommodate barges needed to steer drilling platforms into open water.

Let's see what is the headline? More Damage Caused by RANCHERS. It is an interesting observation that the ranchers should be singled out. I wonder which entities destroyed more habitat? The Oil Pipelines, Oil barges, and drilling rigs or the couple
instances where ranchers altered the marsh.

Because of the loss of marshes, numerous pipelines that were once protected by silt and vegetation — and were not built for open-water conditions — are now exposed, resting like spaghetti on the seabed in shallow water.

When Hurricane Ivan swept across the Gulf of Mexico in September, energy companies reported more than 30 spills amid the maze of pipelines, said James R. Hanchey, deputy secretary of the Louisiana Department of Natural Resources. Ivan blew one piece of pipe several miles across the gulf, and a drilling platform was found 70 miles from where it was when the storm hit.

It is interesting Ithaca is railing against ranchers. Probably drives an SUV and consumes petroleum products without a thought of what the oil industry does to the global environment. But if he could just run every rancher out of business then all would be well. Perhaps you should post the entire article for those who won't click on the link. But I know it is just easier to blame ranchers for all the problems environment.

|oo :wank:

Nemont

 

[MattK]

Nemont- I agree with your assessment of the article. Currently, the biggest problems may not be agriculture. However, the damage caused in the past from draining swamps and wetlands was almost all for agricultural purposes. States not only allowed this to happen, they gave incentives for ranchers and farmers to do this. It wasn't until the 1930's that wetland abuse was even looked at.

Agriculture is still a problem with herbicides, insecticides, fertilizers etc that are used on the plants and then drain into aquifers. There have been vast improvements in this area but there can still be more improvements. Industry has and still is a problem, when talking about the environment. Wildlife and the environment is not their concern. People have to make industry show concern which very seldom happens.

 

[smalls]

Well said Nemont.

Ringer, are really as retarded as you appear to be or do you lose all analytical skill when you have a personal vendetta. I disagree with IT as much as most do, but I can still realize that measures must be taken to protect and in some cases restore our environment. It pains me when blatant actions are taken that are complete detriments to the enviroment.

 

[wyomingtim]

OK, I have the solution:
Get rid of all ranches. If you want beef raise the damn cow yourself. But better not let any cow shit get into the waterway.

Get rid of all energy producing companies and facilities. Maybe that way the fat assed ATV riders would have to jump on bikes to produce electricity from a generator.

While we are at it, we have to shut down any mining facilities. I guess that will take care of all of the erosion problems, sinkholes, coal bed methane issues, etc. By the way, would that also prevent the manufacture of gunpowder?

Since gunpowder would not be avaialable looks like we have to resort to bows and spears. No lamination please, the fires will pollute the air and increase our chances of global warming.

Since mining is out, looks like no more steel, aluminum, carbon, etc. That leaves us down to natural wood and rock.

However, you can't go cutting down any live trees. That would lead to erosion and reduce teh oxygen generating capacity of the planet, in other words, still lead to global warming and the destruction of our environment.

That leaves us with dead wood off the ground (not for a fire remember, too much smoke) and rocks. Can't throw the rocks though because it may cause a spark and start a forest fire. Waaay too much pollution there. All that smoke in the air is sure to create quite the problem.

So, here is what we are left with - trying to club animals with dead wood and stones, eating them raw (no fires) or dried in the sun, eating lots of vegitables that we can only grow naturally in areas that receive plenty of water because we can't promote irrigation. Sounds like a great place. Lets make it happen gents.

I am sure that there are areas to improve on, but some things are just a fact of life right now. It is funny how many people/groups determine what result they want and then do the proper research to reach that conclusion.

I just thought I would put that idea out there.

 

[ringer]

Smalls-I am an absolute retard and understand perfectly what I am saying here. I just found this site through a freind. First thing I see is two or three people who post items intended to flame up ATV riders, people who want the dams in the west left alone, hunters against wolves and obviously ranchers. They make inaccurate statements over and over to try to prove an incorrect position then everyone begins discussing their position to give it validity. I understand perfectly that the industrial revolution and our population growth have not helped the environment. We have done a lot to repair the damage in some areas but the increasing demands of our population for food, water, lumber and power make rapid repair impractical. There is a difference between a conservationist who desires to improve the environment and an environmentalist who wants to blow up everything and get us back to nature. Go ahead and shut down all ranching. We can buy our beef from Canada and Argentina where the environment doesn't matter.

 

[Ithaca 37]

Putting "ranchers" in the title always gets attention. I agree it was unfair to single them out. Now, how about the effect on the environment cause by all the sources in the article?

Welfare ranchers, BTW, have had a greater detrimental impact on the environment of the West than any other industry. Overgrazing of our public lands has been a disaster.

PS, I don't belong to PETA, but I'm a card carrying member of some wildlife conservation organizations and my main crusade is to save, restore and enhance wildlife habitat so our hunting and fishing will improve and be there for future generations.

 

[Nemont]

IT,
You have any data that says the public lands ranching has impacted the environment more then any other industry? I would be interested in reading a scietific study that says cattle grazing was polluted more then the mining industry, or has had the same impact as the timber industry, or the oil and gas industry which is currently booming and building roads all over the place.

Have grazing abuses occurred? Oh course, I am just not convinced that they have had more of any impact on the environment then any OTHER industry. It appears to me that much of the grazing land can and in a lot of cases is recovering but I drive past the Zortman-Landusky mine everytime I go to Billings. No mining has taken place then for , I think, eight years. It will be 800 years before it is recovered. I guess I am just not buying what you are selling.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, Here's a start:

http://www.mikehudak.com/Articles/CommercialLivestock000629.html

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=overgrazing+historic+impact+on+public+lands&btnG=Search

I'll try to find more. It seems to me that with the combined effects of the things mentioned in Hudak's article, there is very little in the West that has not been impacted by overgrazing.

 

[Nemont]

IT,
None of those site said that Grazing had a Greater impact on the environment then another industry in the west. Most said overgrazing had a detrimental effect or impact upon the environment but I can't find any that say it grazing had a greater effect or impact up the environment then the mining, oil, gas, timber industries. Some gave a history, some gave a synopsis, some gave good info. some are pure bs but not said it had a greater impact then any other extractive industry, as you claim.

Nemont

 

[Ithaca 37]

Nemont, I edited my previous post.

 

[Nemont]

I already read it.

Nemont

 

[GatoMan]

Thats funnier then chitt WYOTIM.....good one

 

[MattK]

Yeah WyoTim, Great one. That's funny I must admit. So you're saying you would rather live in New York City? Isn't this the alternative to what you're saying? One way or the other, right?!

I don't ever say we don't need some industry, my point is we need some safe guards to make sure there is some habitat left for wildlife which will hopefully lead to something left for future generations. If extraction is done responsibly, I'm all for it. The reason extraction isn't done this way, it's not as cost effective. Most industries believe in pillaging the land and leaving. Why is it there are so few hunters that see a need for habitat?

 

[Carnivore]

So what is it; over grazing or fat ass ATV riders??? hump

 

[cjcj]

It could all be G.W. Bush`s Fault.

 

[1_pointer]

Nemont- I guess that depends on the criteria. If looking at acreage as the unit of measure, I'd have to say that grazing has probably had more of an impact. I said grazing because defining overgrazing can be difficult.

MattK- I'm pretty sure that I'm with you on this one! I'm not against resource extraction, it's needed. I am against resource extraxtion/use that improperly done or managed.

 

[wyomingtim]

No, I am not saying the alternative is living in NYC, but I get tired of so many chicken littles in the world. Too many people with the sky is falling attitude. I believe there can be a happy medium reached, but some people want to have it their way or no way.