Montana's Impossible Housing Situation

[Forkyfinder]

Here are 497 listings for $350K or less in MT:

https://www.landwatch.com/montana-land-for-sale/homes/price-under-350000/sort-price-low-high

glendive - an ideal location!

 

[Gerald Martin]

So I get what you’re saying, seriously. I’m talking about building a house, just the house, for 200k, not including most labor costs because I would be doing the labor if I was building MYSELF a home, and then talking about selling said home, Land and all- for 1m. The cost of the land must be factored in if the land is selling with the house lol.

So I get it. I do. Call me an idiot. Sometimes I am.

But again I say, when we started those houses those lots were CHEAP. Like 10 grand cheap. Now they’re like 200k just for the lot, if they aren’t already accounted for….
When some New Yorker can move into a house I slapped up in a 5 days and is move-in ready in like 6-8 weeks from breaking ground- SIGHT UNSEEN- for 800k and call it a “good deal” it makes the value of these homes rise so much more significantly than the COST to build it. There was a time that a 3/4” sheet of underlay was like $70 a sheet and the cost did start reflecting a little more but wages did not. The people that grew up here making this community so “desirable” are not gonna be able to stick around much longer.

I liked the thread about “how many of you are millionaires” because I feel that helped us peasants to understand the headspace of a great number of you guys too….

If your 200k was house only, materials only, then you weren’t exaggerating much. You can still build a nice home yourself for 200k in materials.

I was running some rough numbers myself on that lot I referenced earlier and a 1600 square foot 3 bed, 2 bath with a small 2 car garage with medium grade finishes. Materials and land and doing all the work I legally could ( not plumbing or electrical) I was figuring a build cost of $350K for a home with a value of $530-575K. It’s a great investment to have a lot of equity if it’s your home and you can figure out financing.

If you’re doing it on speculation and you have to sub out all labor, that build cost just jumped to @$450K at 9% interest on a construction loan.
Figure in an additional $40K for financing and suddenly you’re looking at a profit margin of @10% or less for nearly half a million investment without the certainty of selling.

Some folks are making great money if they can self finance and sit on a property without dropping the price but it’s not like it’s without risk.

 

[Ben Lamb]

How about factory built homes? The site says they have a high quality warranty. LOL.
To be honest, I grew up in a small house built in the late 60's early 70's. It was "average" quality for that time, but would be seen as a POS today. I would bet some of these factory homes today are better than that house when it was originally completed. It would be interesting to see the opinions on the CC subdivision.

Cameron Crossing - New Bozeman Community

Cameron Crossing is Bozeman Montana's Newest Community. Search homes for sale — New Construction starting at only $230k

cameron-crossing.com

I don't know about these but I'd say the house you grew up in in the 60's and 70's was far more affordable than a comparable property today. The median cost of a house in 1972 was $26700. Adjusted for inflation, that's about $201K. But then the factor in the wage stagnation and increase in debt-heavy consumerism and I think you end up putting even these houses out of reach for a ton of folks.

Some prefabs are great quality. Some are crap. From an equity stand - unless it's pre-fab stick built and set like a traditional framed house, you're likely not building much long term equity with a pre-fab. If those work for folks, awesome. YMMV

 

[Ben Lamb]

glendive - an ideal location!

Some time-shares in there as well.

Although, Glendive is an awesome town. So is Miles City!

 

[Drake4]

How about factory built homes? The site says they have a high quality warranty. LOL.
To be honest, I grew up in a small house built in the late 60's early 70's. It was "average" quality for that time, but would be seen as a POS today. I would bet some of these factory homes today are better than that house when it was originally completed. It would be interesting to see the opinions on the CC subdivision.

Cameron Crossing - New Bozeman Community

Cameron Crossing is Bozeman Montana's Newest Community. Search homes for sale — New Construction starting at only $230k

cameron-crossing.com

These homes come w/ an $850/month "lot rent" as well.

 

[mdhunter]

It’s all relative. I was in Key West visiting a buddy a couple of years back. Homes there were $1,000/ft and not on the water. Where I live you can spend $600/ft but at least you are on the water. Good grief….

 

[SAJ-99]

But then the factor in the wage stagnation and increase in debt-heavy consumerism and I think you end up putting even these houses out of reach for a ton of folks.

I get your point, but those are different issues, and self-created by society to a large degree. I will add that my 1970’s house didn’t have a garage. I wonder what percentage of today’s new builds in the upper Midwest don’t have a garage. I guess we were just tougher, hardier people then…with less crap.

These homes come w/ an $850/month "lot rent" as well.

That explains a lot.

 

[mtmuley]

These homes come w/ an $850/month "lot rent" as well.

A six figure trailer house with lot rent. No thanks. mtmuley

 

[Nick87]

with less crap

This part is true I think

 

[Oak]

Homes there were $1,000/ft and not on the water.

Give it time.

 

[The Hedgehog]

These homes come w/ an $850/month "lot rent" as well.

I see they are also located in the scenic Belowgrade industrial park. How can Jackrabbit and Cameron Bridge intersection be considered a Bozeman address when you're 1 mile from the I90/Belgrade exit cluster? There's better trailer park locations than that around here.

With monthly payments ranging between $2500-$3500/month (for qualified buyers), owning a home trailer in Bozeman Belgrade is now more attainable for those looking to enjoy Gallatin County’s unique outdoor lifestyle!

 

[elkduds]

Colorado's solutions to lack of housing affordable to the workforce: Mobile home parks, tiny house villages, living in RV parks, living in RVs parked on city streets, employee housing villages in resort towns, local legislation requiring some developments to sell to full-time locally employed residents, resort area ordinances to shift short term rentals back to affordable housing, homelessness (living unhoused, in the vernacular). There are plenty of lessons available to re learned from other western states.

Couple years ago when I taught at Monarch ski resort near Salida, I rode the lift w a woman who had fled the Vail Fail at Crested Butte. She had 3 resort jobs: liftie, shuttle bus driver, food service. The resort found her and her dog a school bus with a wood stove to live in, in a snow bank @ 11K elevation. Plumbing took place elsewhere.

In the '80s we paid $1500/month to share with 2 roommates a 2 bedroom house in CB while working 2.5 jobs all winter. Burnt 5+ cords of wood/winter. Wages were between $5-12, beer was $1 @ the cheap bars. Fun while it lasted, but forget about replacing a vehicle, having health insurance, dining out, traveling on the off season, supporting a family.

 

[Treeshark]

I wonder what percentage of today’s new builds in the upper Midwest don’t have a garage.

Very low I would say. Cannot imagine not having a three car garage, and I don’t even have that much crap.

Without a garage, my beer consumption would really suffer.

 

[Straight Arrow]

glendive - an ideal location!

If you are being sarcastic and negative ... then doubt if you have been around Glendive at all. First of all you can grow watermelons there! It's a great gardening climate for Montana.
Then there's Makoshika State Park, a real badlands gem worth camping and exploring. Lower Yellowstone River offers great recreational fun and fishing ... paddlefish capital!
Hunting is pretty darn good: antelope, deer (both species, but notable whitetail along river), pheasants and other birds, even elk not far away nowadays. Dawson Community College with a reputable rodeo team. Probably housing costs much more affordable than Bozeman.
Soooo ... denigrating Glendive as a Montana place to live says more about the denigrator than the place.

 

[noharleyyet]

I take it you legacied 'Tanny fellows are sitting on a pretty fair amount of equity...hopefully your professions and financial planning allow you to keep pace with necessary (mandated and unmandated) debt service allocations.

 

[Forkyfinder]

If you are being sarcastic and negative ... then doubt if you have been around Glendive at all. First of all you can grow watermelons there! It's a great gardening climate for Montana.
Then there's Makoshika State Park, a real badlands gem worth camping and exploring. Lower Yellowstone River offers great recreational fun and fishing ... paddlefish capital!
Hunting is pretty darn good: antelope, deer (both species, but notable whitetail along river), pheasants and other birds, even elk not far away nowadays. Dawson Community College with a reputable rodeo team. Probably housing costs much more affordable than Bozeman.
Soooo ... denigrating Glendive as a Montana place to live says more about the denigrator than the place.

I havent been to glendive a lot. Through a few times. My wife lived there a short time in her childhood. I actually like a lot of eastern Montana - it is a lot like southern WY that im from.

It is certainly not an easy place to live or work.

 

[Ben Lamb]

it is a lot like southern WY that im from.

This explains so much

 

[Carnage2011]

If you are being sarcastic and negative ... then doubt if you have been around Glendive at all. First of all you can grow watermelons there! It's a great gardening climate for Montana.
Then there's Makoshika State Park, a real badlands gem worth camping and exploring. Lower Yellowstone River offers great recreational fun and fishing ... paddlefish capital!
Hunting is pretty darn good: antelope, deer (both species, but notable whitetail along river), pheasants and other birds, even elk not far away nowadays. Dawson Community College with a reputable rodeo team. Probably housing costs much more affordable than Bozeman.
Soooo ... denigrating Glendive as a Montana place to live says more about the denigrator than the place.

Everytime I'm in Glendive I'm blown away at how big of a shit hole it is. A month or so ago I was there with my wife and her response was “I think I’d rather live in Browning than this place, this is the armpit of Montana.” The town feels like the entire place needs pressure washed. The restaurants are bottom 5 in the state. I mean really…it’s appropriately named GlenDIVE.

 

[mtmuley]

“I think I’d rather live in Browning than this place, this is the armpit of Montana.”

Ouch. Haven't been to Glendive since High School. Harsh assessment. mtmuley

 

[Hem]

Everytime I'm in Glendive I'm blown away at how big of a shit hole it is. A month or so ago I was there with my wife and her response was “I think I’d rather live in Browning than this place, this is the armpit of Montana.” The town feels like the entire place needs pressure washed. The restaurants are bottom 5 in the state. I mean really…it’s appropriately named GlenDIVE.

Went to Browning once, 35 years ago.
Haven't felt the need since.