Montana Wolf - The waiting is over!

Bigfin,

I dont see Wyoming having a season any time soon. Of course Bob Wharff is harping that Wyoming will "eventually" have the best plan. I think its very unlikey that a season will happen in 2012...just dont see it. Mainly because their "management" plan will undoubtedly end up in litigation before a single wolf tag is issued. Their plan has already been ruled as inadequate based on the dual classification...doubtful it will be ruled on any differently next time.

I ended a heated discussion with Wharff by asking how the 2011 Wyoming wolf season was treating him...and how many wolf tags he had in his pocket.

Its unbelievable the propoganda that is spread by that group. Its completely off the hook that they fought the Simpson/Tester delisting effort.

You really have to ask yourself what type of "sportsmen" group would do such a thing?

Unbelievable.
 
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Found the wine to go with the wolf ! Wolf Blass Shiraz, Riesling, or Cabernet Sauvignon,depending on your taste buds. Good luck on your hunt!
 
mightyhunter said:
Big Fin,

Concerning Wyoming, the last I heard was wolf hunting in the predator zone early in 2012 with trophy hunts by next fall. I am not sure, but I believe there is a rider inserted by Rep. Lummis in the pending budget joint resolution that would prevent further litigation on the subject of the Wyoming wolf plan. That may pass in the next week or so. I do know that the Wyoming Game and Fish has been quietly killing lots of "problem wolves". This was the first year of hunting in NW Wyoming where I didn't see any wolves or much wolf sign. I would guess that this is the result of the aforementioned G&F wolf kills and the SSS crowds. One drainage that I mule deer hunt is usually crawling with wolves, but not this year. Instead, it was crawling with grizzly bears. As you know, there is still a pending wolf case in the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals on the Simpson/Tester rider. An unfavorable ruling in that case, could derail everything. I am hoping that the battle is over in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho. I have no prediction on the ultimate outcome of anything the judiciary does. Unfortunately, the battle is just starting to rev up in New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado and Utah with the proposed introduction of the Mexican Grey Wolf. That battle may change the focus of the eco-elites from this area to that area. I read an article the other day about a collared wolf trolling real close to the California state line.
Click to expand...

1. In order for this to happen, you will have to have a USFWS approved plan, and they will have to put the delisting rule in the federal register, along with a rider that would preclude the delisting rule from judicial review. Even then you will have a court challenge, and it might stick with WY due to the fact that court precedent has already concluded that WY does not have an acceptable management plan. The ruling from WY was not clear as to whether or not the old WY management plan would meet the "adequate regulatory mechanism" requirement of the ESA. The new plan has not been peer reviewed, and so you still have a long way to go in terms of finalizing what s, if any, delisting rule would look like. To think that there would be hunting in the predator zone in early 2012 is ambitious, and a bit niave, IMO. I've certainly been wrong before, but I doubt you'll be gunning down wolves for the next 12 months. Especially in this congress.

2.) If the SSS crowd was effective, we wouldn't have had 24% growth over the last 15 years. ;)

3.) The SW has what, 25 wolves? The ESA won't get gutted, no matter how much some folks claim that they can get it done. If the force of congress during the Bush admin couldn't do it, what makes anyone think that a divided congress, with a progressive democrat could? S/T was based on science. BGF - not so much.
 
I have learned to pay attention when Buzz, Fin and Ben type about wolves.
 
Good luck guys hope you can get one or 2.As far as eating one I think I will decline any invites to supper at the Newburg res.
 
Good luck on the hunt Fin and Crittergetter. Saw a post on the campfire about eating the wolf meat and was said to be good. Let us know how it is if you get to try some.
 
With regard to the wolf hunting in the predator zone or trophy zone in 2012 for Wyoming, I was quoting Mr. Bruscino from Wyoming Game and Fish. He has repeated this over and over again to the press and at public meetings that I have attended. He was the Wyoming G&F bear guy and is now the wolf guy. I have met him and he seems sincere enough. Whether it is true or not is certainly not up to "naive" little old me. Ben Lamb is correct that a rider will be necessary to prevent judicial review. As I stated in my initial post, it is my understanding that this has been attached to the next budget resolution now pending before Congress. I believe that budget resolution is supposed to be resolved by this Friday or President Obama has threatened to keep the Congress from taking a vacation. Of course, he may be vacationing in Hawaii while this is all going on.

My observation that the wolf population is declining in NW Wyoming is my own. Whether the SSS crowd combined with the activities of the Wyoming Game & Fish is causing this remains to be seen. Maybe the wolves have just cleared out because of a declining food source. Perhaps, they are having disease problems. Last week, while cutting firewood in the Sunlight, I saw a decent herd of elk with about 30-40 calf elk. That has not always been the case on the winter range in recent years and I was glad to see it. But again I am "naive" and certainly not as aware of the NW Wyoming wolf situation as say someone from Montana or Cheyenne might be.

There are lots of attempts on these boards to deride Wyoming for what it thought was the right approach to the wolf situation in this state. Perhaps we should deride all the sportsman in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho that passively sat on their hands while the USFWS started this mess sixteen years ago. That "dead horse" hasn't been kicked enough. Perhaps we could bash the SFW, MDF and RMEF for thinking that the wolf situation would resolve itself without them actually becoming involved in litigating or lobbying on the issue. Perhaps, we could blame it on one political party that panders to the left wing agenda of the eco-elites and wolf lovers.

Right now, Montana and Idaho have taken two different paths to handle the current wolf situation. Idaho has been very aggressive with hunting, trapping, now aerial gunning, cheap non-resident tags and no quotas. This approach is more radical than anything Wyoming has proposed. Some people believe that this aggressive approach could seriously backfire with resulting damage inflicted on the surrounding states. Montana has taken a more measured approach to the problem by hoping that mostly resident hunters can hit the quota. I know that Montana's season has been extended but that state is only about half way to that quota with two months to go. I applaud Big Fin for going out and doing his part for Montana. I assume that Ben Lamb has also been actively engaged in that pursuit. If the Montana NR tags were not so expensive, I would buy one and wander a few miles north to do my part.

There is still a pending case in front of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals that is reviewing the latest reluctant wolf decision from Judge Malloy. The case has been argued and all preliminary injunctions to stop the hunting in Idaho and Montana were denied. I seriously hope that they uphold the "wolf rider". The makeup/background of the judges actually deciding that case still makes me a little nervous. How many of you know who those judges are? We have a couple of individuals on these boards that claim to have predicted the current outcome of all this. I have been accused of not having a "one firing brain cell" because I didn't agree with his analysis. Most of what they predict is accomplished with hindsight. What I want to know from those individuals is where the wolf situation will be in one year, three years, five years or ten years from now in Wyoming, Montana and Idaho? Lets hear it.
 
Good Luck. This is why I believe in this show & its sponsors. BTW, can you really eat wolfs? I really want to see that part on the show if you get one. I know I won't eat no darn Coyote from TX or from anywhere else for that matter. Again, Good Luck & God Speed.
 
mightyhunter said:
With regard to the wolf hunting in the predator zone or trophy zone in 2012 for Wyoming, I was quoting Mr. Bruscino from Wyoming Game and Fish. He has repeated this over and over again to the press and at public meetings that I have attended. He was the Wyoming G&F bear guy and is now the wolf guy. I have met him and he seems sincere enough. Whether it is true or not is certainly not up to "naive" little old me. Ben Lamb is correct that a rider will be necessary to prevent judicial review. As I stated in my initial post, it is my understanding that this has been attached to the next budget resolution now pending before Congress. I believe that budget resolution is supposed to be resolved by this Friday or President Obama has threatened to keep the Congress from taking a vacation. Of course, he may be vacationing in Hawaii while this is all going on.
Click to expand...

I know and deeply respect Mark, and I still think that his timeline is off. You have to have a number of things happen before any wolf hits the dirt from anyone other than government agents in WY.

1.) WY State Legislature has to change the law to mold the plan and Mead has to accept it.
2.) USFWS has to approve the plan
3.) USFWS has to issue a rule w/ a mandatory 30 day minimum comment period
4.) Congress has to pass a rider that exempts WY's plan from judicial review otherwise it will be over turned as inadequate

All of that leads to May or June as the earliest you could see delisting in Wyoming.

As far as WY's plan and it's wisdom - All 3 states would have had control of their wolf populations in 2005 if it wasn't for WY. All legal challenges would have been done, and we would have been on our 5th or 6th hunting season.


Right now, Montana and Idaho have taken two different paths to handle the current wolf situation. Idaho has been very aggressive with hunting, trapping, now aerial gunning, cheap non-resident tags and no quotas. This approach is more radical than anything Wyoming has proposed. Some people believe that this aggressive approach could seriously backfire with resulting damage inflicted on the surrounding states. Montana has taken a more measured approach to the problem by hoping that mostly resident hunters can hit the quota. I know that Montana's season has been extended but that state is only about half way to that quota with two months to go. I applaud Big Fin for going out and doing his part for Montana. I assume that Ben Lamb has also been actively engaged in that pursuit. If the Montana NR tags were not so expensive, I would buy one and wander a few miles north to do my part.
Click to expand...

Idaho continues to follow it's wolf management plan, which has always been more aggressive than MT's. So long as Idaho manages for a genetically diverse population well above the 150/15, we'll be fine. The key is to stick with your plan for the first five years. Delisting of any species, and the continued state management of that species is dependent upon a commitment by the states to manage the species in such a manner that it will not trigger the review that would place it back on the ESA. I don't see Idaho getting down to the 150/15 number, especially when they have to call in helicopters to get the job done, and even then, they're not hitting the numbers they think they need.

Idaho's is far from what Wyoming's approach was. Everything that Idaho is doing is done under the structure of an approved adequate regulatory mechanism. No regulation on wolves outside of the trophy zone means no regulatory mechanism to ensure their viability outside of that zone.

BTW - the WMU to your north is closed.
 
"Idaho has been very aggressive with hunting, trapping, now aerial gunning, cheap non-resident tags and no quotas. This approach is more radical than anything Wyoming has proposed. Some people believe that this aggressive approach could seriously backfire with resulting damage inflicted on the surrounding states."

Not sure what people those would be but by the numbers the Idaho plan is a success. As of the December 13th update 162 wolves had been harvested by hunting and trapping. Of those 5 have been taken by trapping and 57 have been taken from zones with a quota. Of those zones the Southern Mountains Zone has had the most wolves taken, 18, and that zone has second smallest quota, 25. Anyone familiar with that zone knows there are far more than 7 wolves left so the quota for that zone doesn't pose a concern. As for the zones without a quota the numbers speak for themselves. Zones with few wolves like the large Southern Idaho zone have 0 wolves harvested and zones with large populations have more wolves harvested. The only exception is the Selway zone with a total of 7 wolves harvested 3 of those being trapped. This zone has such limited access that aerial gunning is necessary.
 
I almost forgot. Good luck Fin I'm headed out this weekend as well. If you do find a good recipe let us know.
 
Ben Lamb,

I agree with some of what you say. I believe that the "wolf rider" stopping judicial challenge to Wyoming's plan is the key.

Your comment:

As far as WY plan and its wisdom-all 3 states would have had control of their wolf populations in 2005 if it wasn't for WY. All legal challenges would have been done, and we would have been on our 5th or 6th hunting season.

My comment to that is:
BuffaloShit.jpg
 
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