Montana - Time to Shake it Up?

[Deleted member 48080]

There’s some variation depending on the bells and whistles but generally $1,000, plus animal capture ($500-$600 each), plus the collar subscription service.

At that price, we have no excuse to not have animals of each species in each unit collared.

 

[WanderWoman]

So its about a dozen NR license sales to fully fund a pretty solid study involving collar tracking. Maybe add a dozen more NR tags to the pool...I kid, I kid

That would be nice..

FWP staff have to plan for other things too. The capture cost quoted above is generally strictly the helicopter and doesn’t include a spotter plane, travel, sampling, testing, etc. There’s also research technicians or grad students involved in monitoring, time/travel to collect and assess mortalities, other field work (veg work, etc.), statistical analysis, university overhead, etc etc. And then multiply all this by however many years a study is going and things add up pretty quick.

 

[sclancy27]

That would be nice..

FWP staff have to plan for other things too. The capture cost quoted above is generally strictly the helicopter and doesn’t include a spotter plane, travel, sampling, testing, etc. There’s also research technicians or grad students involved in monitoring, time/travel to collect and assess mortalities, other field work (veg work, etc.), statistical analysis, university overhead, etc etc. And then multiply all this by however many years a study is going and things add up pretty quick.

I was just going to type this. The collars are a minimal cost any study. I would venture a guess that total costs are $6-8K (or more) per study animal all said and done. It's no wonder collar studies are usually pretty limited in sample size.

 

[cgasner1]

Maybe fwp should raise our resident costs on deer tags and use this for a justification to do so. A 5 dollar increase would go a long way and help for the future.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Maybe fwp should raise our resident costs on deer tags and use this for a justification to do so. A 5 dollar increase would go a long way and help for the future.

FWP sells about 212-213,000 deer licenses a year. That's about $1 million. I think you'd need more.

 

[SixPoint]

At that price, we have no excuse to not have animals of each species in each unit collared.

Agreed. Although one of the major concerns folks have is one of these on x type companies doing a FOIA and publishing the data. Imagine a layer titled migration pinch points and the implications that could have.

 

[sclancy27]

Maybe fwp should raise our resident costs on deer tags and use this for a justification to do so. A 5 dollar increase would go a long way and help for the future.

FWP sells about 212-213,000 deer licenses a year. That's about $1 million. I think you'd need more.

The way things happen with licenses maybe we could just introduce a fee or "deer stamp" as a funding mechanism. I know they have done this on the fisheries side to fund hatcheries before. We could have it run for 5 yrs and then be phased out. If you purchase a deer tag you have to purchase the stamp, A or B license. 10$ a piece, $10 million for research over 5 years.

 

[Ben Lamb]

The way things happen with licenses maybe we could just introduce a fee or "deer stamp" as a funding mechanism. I know they have done this on the fisheries side to fund hatcheries before. We could have it run for 5 yrs and then be phased out. If you purchase a deer tag you have to purchase the stamp, A or B license. 10$ a piece, $10 million for research over 5 years.

I'm not sure that revenue is the issue. FWP is currently flush and while some revenue is dipping (Pittman Robertson for example), the license revenue part is pretty stable. The budget allocates the funds a specific way and since it's a law, the funds can't be moved around as much as staff would like, so the budget planning process is where I'd focus if we want to see more funding allocated for this kind of research.

Plus, if the veto override of SB 442 is available, then the funding for that (up to about $14 million per year) could be used to help fund projects that include collaring and monitoring, etc.

 

[BuzzH]

Agreed. Although one of the major concerns folks have is one of these on x type companies doing a FOIA and publishing the data. Imagine a layer titled migration pinch points and the implications that could have.

Big deal. The migration work in Wyoming is published in a book and anyone with a firing brain cell can see the pinch points.

That's one of the ideas for the GPS collar data to start with, to identify the migration corridors and more importantly the pinch points.

If some of the corridors and pinch points aren't identified and they aren't somehow protected, we're going to be seeing a lot fewer animals on the landscape. We already are.

That's another big issue that needs to be addressed. Without proper and safe migration, big game takes an absolute pounding. IMO/E there are already places in MT that have been impacted big time by lost migration due to highways, fencing, Fort Peck Reservoir, etc. No question in my mind it's had a big impact in certain areas.

As to people hunting the pinch points, that's what commission regulations are for, seasonal closures, etc.

 

[sclancy27]

Big deal. The migration work in Wyoming is published in a book and anyone with a firing brain cell can see the pinch points.

That's one of the ideas for the GPS collar data to start with, to identify the migration corridors and more importantly the pinch points.

If some of the corridors and pinch points aren't identified and they aren't somehow protected, we're going to be seeing a lot fewer animals on the landscape. We already are.

That's another big issue that needs to be addressed. Without proper and safe migration, big game takes an absolute pounding. IMO/E there are already places in MT that have been impacted big time by lost migration due to highways, fencing, Fort Peck Reservoir, etc. No question in my mind it's had a big impact in certain areas.

As to people hunting the pinch points, that's what commission regulations are for, seasonal closures, etc.

Exactly, it takes about 10 seconds to find those results on the internet via published research, why would you need to FOIA...

 

[golfer]

Maybe fwp should raise our resident costs on deer tags and use this for a justification to do so. A 5 dollar increase would go a long way and help for the future.

Don’t believe that’s an FWP decision.

 

[SAJ-99]

I remember Gianforte made FWP limit long-term studies when he came into office. Data is bad when it doesn't support what you want to do.

Science, data behind FWP proposals get less emphasis under Gianforte

From wolf hunts to otter trapping, the FWP commission is considering several wildlife decisions without having good biological information. Montana FWP leaders have said that science, particularly long-term studies, would get less emphasis under the Gianforte administration.

missoulacurrent.com

 

[sclancy27]

I remember Gianforte made FWP limit long-term studies when he came into office. Data is bad when it doesn't support what you want to do.

Science, data behind FWP proposals get less emphasis under Gianforte

From wolf hunts to otter trapping, the FWP commission is considering several wildlife decisions without having good biological information. Montana FWP leaders have said that science, particularly long-term studies, would get less emphasis under the Gianforte administration.

missoulacurrent.com

It was happening before him but it is definitely getting worse. One of the many reasons I don't like that guy.

 

[SAJ-99]

It was happening before him but it is definitely getting worse. One of the many reasons I don't like that guy.

Montana used to have world class both game and non-game research. Now it is only slightly better than a clown show.

 

[SixPoint]

Big deal. The migration work in Wyoming is published in a book and anyone with a firing brain cell can see the pinch points.

That's one of the ideas for the GPS collar data to start with, to identify the migration corridors and more importantly the pinch points.

If some of the corridors and pinch points aren't identified and they aren't somehow protected, we're going to be seeing a lot fewer animals on the landscape. We already are.

That's another big issue that needs to be addressed. Without proper and safe migration, big game takes an absolute pounding. IMO/E there are already places in MT that have been impacted big time by lost migration due to highways, fencing, Fort Peck Reservoir, etc. No question in my mind it's had a big impact in certain areas.

As to people hunting the pinch points, that's what commission regulations are for, seasonal closures, etc.

Respectfully I disagree. I think it is something that needs to be considered. I don’t have faith that the state would be proactive enough to get ahead of it.

 

[SwaggyD]

Montana used to have world class both game and non-game research.

We did? When?

 

[BuzzH]

Respectfully I disagree. I think it is something that needs to be considered. I don’t have faith that the state would be proactive enough to get ahead of it.

Ok, then don't complain when migration corridors/pinch points and the big game that use them disappear, you know, forever.

 

[Ben Lamb]

Ok, then don't complain when migration corridors/pinch points and the big game that use them disappear, you know, forever.

There is a modicum of migration work being done in some pretty critical landscapes. On the hiline it's for deer, pronghorn and sage grouse, in SW it's similar, and the issue of road crossings is a big part of that (especially now that the funding on the federal side came through). TRCP tried to get some state match funding this last session, but I think that effort didn't succeed.

For a lot of critters in MT, the migration may be shorter than in WY or other states due to the intermountain valleys but those migrations are just as critical to those populations as the path of the pronghorn, etc.

FWP, TNC, NWF are working on this as are other land trusts and some of the conservation groups out of Bozeman like GYC, etc. It seems like it's a bit farther behind than the Wyoming work though.

 

[SixPoint]

Ok, then don't complain when migration corridors/pinch points and the big game that use them disappear, you know, forever.

Collar data and knowing how animals use landscapes is critical, I agree. However that information needs to be safeguarded and only accessible to certain folks. Migrations and pinch points could just as easily disappear from that info being misused.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Man, CPW lays out all the migration corridors on their hunt atlas..