Montana State have regulations for County roads?

[Sytes]

Does Montana have regulations that counties are required to uphold regarding, "County roads"? Or does each county create the laws that effect roads within?
I am looking for actual regulations and Flathead county shares generalities...
A little town hall meeting for local concerned citizens are gathering due to a road believed as a forest service road that has been gated.
In my basic research, it appears in 2010 the road was turned over to the county. So from there, I'm trying to track down further regulations though seem stumped on vague county statements.

If no State regulations the counties must follow when creating their own, are there general research tools anyone can offer?

I plan to attend though not interested in a rant based town hall. It would be nice to understand the basics vs the half cocked assumptions due to other assumptions, etc.

Thanks

 

[MTGomer]

If the FS turned it over to the county, I would assume that the county accepted the road. For it to no longer be county, and be gated as a private road somebody would’ve had to petition the county for vacation of the road, this would have then been placed on the agenda, and discussed at commission meetings and ultimately voted upon.

 

[BigHornRam]

Montana counties have some really poor records on their roads, particularly when it involves timberland roads that have been in multiple hands, intermixed with forest service access roads like you find in NW Montana. It is going to become more and more of an issue as companies like Weyerhaeuser sell of some of their holdings to private individuals. That is why projects like this one is important to support if you want to lessen access conflicts that are going to be more frequent in the coming years.

http://www.dailyinterlake.com/local_news/20171221/conservation_easement_sought_near_libby

 

[BigHornRam]

Or this proposed easement

https://www.backcountryhunters.org/forest_legacy_lost_trail_conservation_project

 

[BigHornRam]

Or this completed easement. This was primo sub-divideable land that is now open to public access in perpetuity. Public access does not mean motor vehicle access all over however. There are gates on many of the logging roads.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/pa...cle_e39f7246-9c82-5f14-b855-115c8ac32329.html

 

[Sytes]

Always good reading, thanks Gomer and BHR.

Interesting aspect, the owner of the land the FS road runs through is gated though not locked.
It is a small cattle company, from my understanding.
The other interesting aspect, the private property sign is not affixed to the gate, it's off to one side of the gate posts and I would likely believe it is on private property...
My initial impression is it's not illegal. It's a bit of the usual dirty tactic to leave the perception it is illegal to proceed though reality is, s/he legally is permitted to post no trespassing signs on his property and confine livestock while not locking the gate...

According to one of the involved gents, this is a FS Rd. The 2010 county received road is for another portion of this road.

Or this completed easement. This was primo sub-divideable land that is now open to public access in perpetuity. Public access does not mean motor vehicle access all over however. There are gates on many of the logging roads.

http://missoulian.com/news/local/pa...cle_e39f7246-9c82-5f14-b855-115c8ac32329.html

Kristin Kovalik w/ TPL has been fantastic with shuffling / organizing the circus to see this through. Great all around success for us, the public land owners. Great forest harvest timber sale, watershed protection and recreation. Hope phase III, III complete.

 

[406LIFE]

The other interesting aspect, the private property sign is not affixed to the gate, it's off to one side of the gate posts and I would likely believe it is on private property...

I saw this while in Utah this past summer and asked some locals about it, and they agreed it was deceiving but legal to drive through.

I have seen similar in Montana, but not often. I've driven through them, uninterrupted.

 

[widnert]

I am in total agreement with the sneakiness of the implied illegality of proceeding down one of these roads. I would much prefer that the landowner would be required to post a sign similar to one's seen on NFS roads when crossing private land. Spells out that you're crossing private land and to stay on the road. With the approach in the picture above, most folks that are trying to follow the rules and are not familiar with this specific location, would not go through that gate. I am not appreciative of this tactic.

 

[bigskyblueman]

One possible salient point....A county may not legally abandon a road if it is the only road to state land without voting to do so at the county commission level....As per the Madison County Attorney about a road I lodged a complaint about being gated off....

 

[Sytes]

I wonder if it's legal/illegal to post a sign on the gate that states it's a "legal public through-way, please close gate" or something to that effect...
This is apparently a Forest Service Road. The county holds a different portion of the road. It routes to and through portions of National Forest and Stillwater State Forest.
Evers Creek Connection Rd.

 

[bigskyblueman]

State land being on that road, the Region 1 FWP Supervisor should be of help.....Pat Flowers did so for me with a similar issue here in Region 3......

 

[Clawsar]

You can always give the County Attorneys Civil department a call too. They may be able to also point you in a good direction.

 

[RobG]

I don't quite understand - was it determined that this road is open to the public and it is signed deceptively, or we don't know the status of it?

It is my understanding that a road is only "public" if it has a recorded easement, which should be easy to find if it exists. If there is no recorded easement and the landowner contests it, you have to prove in a court that the road is public. For roads, that generally means public money has been used to maintain it in the past, or public use that fits the criteria for a prescriptive to be established.

 

[PrairieHunter]

I've seen this done in Wyoming quite a bit. I know a couple of weeks ago I drove down Boulder Ridge Rd SW of Laramie and it had no trespassing signs on both sides of the cattle guard but I know it's a country road. That was the case all the way down until a small piece of BLM which had a road marked as "private" on the BLM which apparently led to a subdivision.

It gets old trying to figure out what roads are open to public use and which are actually private with all the shenanigans these landowners try to pull.

 

[Sytes]

The meeting is being held by fellow landowners that also have property along this road and (or) use the road en-route to/from the main highway. They are peeved by #1. open/close a gate and #2. The practice of perception that amounts to reality for many... that the road is private...

Any interested in the meeting and in the Flathead County, The meeting will be held at the Lower Stillwater Restaurant / Bar, tomorrow @ 6pm.

 

[bigskyblueman]

A county discontinuing maintaining a road does not constitute a legal abandonment, as per the Madison County Attorney......

 

[Sytes]

Went to the meeting. A decent-sized group of public land owners showed to listen to three or four private landowners along the road. Maybe 50 to 60 people (?).

It sounds as though a lot more research is needed to identify whether this road is deeded or strictly an early easement road for utilities and logging of the past (Plum Creek).

View attachment Scan Sep 7, 2018.pdf

Unfortunately, my impression is the private landowners will attempt to negotiate a mutual private ownership access for strictly private use.
I believe originally they thought it would be a decent idea to open it and explore the potential this could be a public road and gain support though one of the private owners that spoke discussed his conversation with the California based landowner to the extent seeking private access as a method of mediation between the private landowners.
The concern was more for the sake of fire or other hazards and not having access to a second route out of the area if their main route is blocked due to the hazard.
This seems to be key when considering legal fees Etc just to battle the private owners of property attached to this road for access to one of the private owners gate, whether legal or not.

My impression is the other private owners will Ally themselves with the private owner of the gate. When considering all the money involved the legal battles Etc it makes sense in an unfortunate manner... If this is an actual public right-of-way Road.