Montana season structure proposal 2.0

[SAJ-99]

I'm with you on this and it was my feedback when the proposal first came out.

I personally like the proposal but I do think it’s a lot of moving parts and will make it difficult to gain traction with the average public hunter and FWP. I just think of all the people at work going on about how many b tags they filled over the weekend.

Antelope regs are something FWP and hunters are already familiar with. Just copy paste but also implement the mandatory reporting so you can adjust quotas accordingly. Then cut 2.5 weeks off the back end of deer season and add an extra week or two to the front end of all the mountain units. Keep the prairie a short season with limited special permits for rut hunts. Just some ideas. Everything’s struggling but deer seem to be in the worst condition. I’d focus on deer.

I don’t think a lot of people would give up the first two weeks of elk season to drive across the state to shoot a forky. People have limited time to hunt, and I think a lot of guys would apply for a deer tag for the same unit they’re elk hunting rather than a deer tag on opposite ends of the state. Just my 2 cents.

FWP (and MT hunters approve) treat antelope like a finite resource with local populations being affected by a variety of natural factors as well as hunting and are quick to adjust tag numbers in reaction to the changes in the variables.

In contrast, FWP treat deer like an infinite resource, largely homogenous throughout the state and only slight affected by other variables so they can be hunted for weeks on end, in the rut, with little impact on population dynamics. Mostly the only adjustment made is to doe tags.

I never could make sense of the differences. I think it is clear FWP does this because that is what the majority of MT hunters want. Until that changes, any other suggestions or ideas have an uphill battle. Breaks units going to LE are a glimpse of the future.

 

[rogerthat]

So with getting rid of pick your region and no nr caps, explain to me how this plan will take pressure off R6 and R7 that are already absolutely crushed with hunting pressure and little to no security cover? I think this plan might even make the pressure worse in 6 and 7 without some constraints to hunter numbers due to the cover issue. Go try to kill an October muley amongst a sea of trees vs the open country of eastern montana. If I’m a nr with limited skills in muley hunting I’m going east all day and every day of the season. Sorry fellas but you took a step in the wrong direction on this one for me.

 

[Forkyfinder]

So with getting rid of pick your region and no nr caps, explain to me how this plan will take pressure off R6 and R7 that are already absolutely crushed with hunting pressure and little to no security cover? I think this plan might even make the pressure worse in 6 and 7 without some constraints to hunter numbers due to the cover issue. Go try to kill an October muley amongst a sea of trees vs the open country of eastern montana. If I’m a nr with limited skills in muley hunting I’m going east all day and every day of the season. Sorry fellas but you took a step in the wrong direction on this one for me.

You going to flush your elk tag though? Or hunt cows only?

 

[rogerthat]

You going to flush your elk tag though? Or hunt cows only?

So you’re saying they will have to pick elk or deer? I definitely like that part

 

[Forkyfinder]

So you’re saying they will have to pick elk or deer? I definitely like that part

I do too. If you get a combo tag you either come all the way to MT twice or hunt whiteys/elk.

 

[cgasner1]

So you’re saying they will have to pick elk or deer? I definitely like that part

Maybe how much vacation you got? Gonna loose 2 days of hunt time in travel as a nr for each trip

 

[rogerthat]

I do too. If you get a combo tag you either come all the way to MT twice or hunt whiteys/elk.

But here’s the deal, will it offset enough? Im skeptical it will. Eastern montana needs nr caps regardless of season structure or some other hunter pressure sidebars. Pick your region would do that a little bit at least.

 

[rogerthat]

I’m partial to idahos system. Nr caps.

 

[sclancy27]

So with getting rid of pick your region and no nr caps, explain to me how this plan will take pressure off R6 and R7 that are already absolutely crushed with hunting pressure and little to no security cover? I think this plan might even make the pressure worse in 6 and 7 without some constraints to hunter numbers due to the cover issue. Go try to kill an October muley amongst a sea of trees vs the open country of eastern montana. If I’m a nr with limited skills in muley hunting I’m going east all day and every day of the season. Sorry fellas but you took a step in the wrong direction on this one for me.

But here’s the deal, will it offset enough? Im skeptical it will. Eastern montana needs nr caps regardless of season structure or some other hunter pressure sidebars. Pick your region would do that a little bit at least.

Using your own logic, pick your region could make it even worse in eastern MT, which is the same thing we considered when we removed it.

 

[rogerthat]

Using your own logic, pick your region could make it even worse in eastern MT, which is the same thing we considered when we removed it.

Fair enough. That doesn’t change the fact east montana needs some hunter pressure side bars no matter the season structure

 

[sclancy27]

Fair enough. That doesn’t change the fact east montana needs some hunter pressure side bars no matter the season structure

That is true. It is going to be an enormous push to get buy in from other groups (ie outfitters) for any kind of regional capping. Plus, regional caps are a stop-over on the way to LE, which the department nor outfitters (or many others) want. Hence, why we chose the incentive route.

 

[mukbowhunt]

I’m partial to idahos system. Nr caps.

Speaking of Idaho… A big chunk of the NR caps have gone to support outfitters directly. In certain zones they keep reducing the NR tags while increasing the outfitter tags.

I would love for Mt to avoid further outfitter support. I can’t imagine they actually need the guaranteed tags other than it makes their job easier with repeat clients.

 

[rogerthat]

Speaking of Idaho… A big chunk of the NR caps have gone to support outfitters directly. In certain zones they keep reducing the NR tags while increasing the outfitter tags.

I would love for Mt to avoid further outfitter support. I can’t imagine they actually need the guaranteed tags other than it makes their job easier with repeat clients.

Yeah that would be interesting to know. I assume MOGA has a good idea how the business side of things changed when I-161 passed. Honestly I could care less what private landowners and private land outfitters do. It would be nice if they chased a few critters back onto public land once in a while via some hunting pressure.

 

[Flatbrimmer]

Yeah that would be interesting to know. I assume MOGA has a good idea how the business side of things changed when I-161 passed. Honestly I could care less what private landowners and private land outfitters do. It would be nice if they chased a few critters back onto public land once in a while via some hunting pressure.

That’s just the thing, i wish outfitters and guides could only hunt private land, we’d see a lot more public land success, reducing hunter days, and we’d see less congestion from the general public hunting beside outfitters with horses on every good hillside

 

[rogerthat]

That’s just the thing, i wish outfitters and guides could only hunt private land, we’d see a lot more public land success, reducing hunter days, and we’d see less congestion from the general public hunting beside outfitters with horses on every good hillside

Where you hunt have you ran into lots of outfitters? I really never have but I know they are around

 

[cgasner1]

Where you hunt have you ran into lots of outfitters? I really never have but I know they are around

I’ve been asked not to go into a drainage because they had clients in it. Way deep into public

 

[Flatbrimmer]

They’re everywhere up T-Fork near West, the far end of Bridgers, all over in the Gallatin canyon, up York way was one of the worst I’ve ever seen. Like a small village…

 

[Irrelevant]

So with getting rid of pick your region and no nr caps, explain to me how this plan will take pressure off R6 and R7 that are already absolutely crushed with hunting pressure and little to no security cover? I think this plan might even make the pressure worse in 6 and 7 without some constraints to hunter numbers due to the cover issue. Go try to kill an October muley amongst a sea of trees vs the open country of eastern montana. If I’m a nr with limited skills in muley hunting I’m going east all day and every day of the season. Sorry fellas but you took a step in the wrong direction on this one for me.

I know half a dozen WA hunters that simply won't go if there's not a Nov season. So there's less pressure.

Legitimately, why deer hunt MT over WY and ID if there's no rut hunt?

 

[Forkyfinder]

I know half a dozen WA hunters that simply won't go if there's not a Nov season. So there's less pressure.

Legitimately, why deer hunt MT over WY and ID if there's no rut hunt?

Literally no reason unless you have private access.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I know half a dozen WA hunters that simply won't go if there's not a Nov season. So there's less pressure.

Legitimately, why deer hunt MT over WY and ID if there's no rut hunt?

Said in my best Donald Trump voice. “ Because we have some of the finest forked horn mule deer in the world. There’s a lot of people who like our forked horns and they are very very happy with the best forked horns that have ever been seen.”