brocksw
Well-known member
I'll take your word for it.
Montana ridiculousness- Pref point debacle
- Thread starter POk3s
- Start date
NDGuy
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2018
- Messages
- 1,716
I called FWP and any fractional points generated are donated to poor helpless outfitters and their clients in these times of need.
I have to say I am so glad I found this forum 9 years ago and don't use any of the other ones. Was just on black and green forum reading about this MT pref point topic and Holy cow I feel dumber after reading it. Even the ones "who know things" can't hold a candle to many of you on here!
Everyone on here knows their stuff and shares great information thank you to all that help make this what it is!
Everyone on here knows their stuff and shares great information thank you to all that help make this what it is!
SAJ-99
Well-known member
Agree. Quality at any website is a function of its members. Everyone has their function, even the jackasses. This place is has some super-knowledgeable people and we all benefit. Sorry for being one of the jackasses.
Pucky Freak
Well-known member
So if you want to someday draw a special permit, but not draw a tag without the special permit, apply every 3 years with 1PP to guarantee you won’t draw, while at the same time buying a bonus point every year? Or can you buy bonus points indefinitely without losing them if you don’t apply every 3 years like you do with the PP’s?
Shangobango
Well-known member
A NR can carry a maximum of 1 PP between application periods if they did not apply for the combo the prior season, unless they are booked with an outfitter.
To put it another way, you cannot skip applying and just buy a point 2 years in a row without losing a point.
NDGuy
Well-known member
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- Apr 26, 2018
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LE are hard enough as is to draw, now you won't even have a chance to draw them unless you draw the combo which looks like every 2-3 years having a slim chance to draw LE.
Looks more like once in a lifetime to draw a LE permit now.
8andcounting
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2013
- Messages
- 3,401
Yup it’s a joke . 2 of last 3 years I haven’t even been entered in LE draw cuz I didn’t draw the damn bg combo … now I have a shit ton of bonus points for LE , and will have 2 pp at time of draw so I should probably have a decent chance at drawing the combo and getting entered but then the LE draw even with lots of points is no sure thing . It could be 3 years before I even get entered in that again .
My understanding is bonus points you can buy indefinitely without losing them.
Again what's going to hurt your LE chances even more is when you don't draw in the first go round of the draw but get a returned tag and lose your PP and only get the general tag without even being out into the LE draw. So another 3 years to wait.
kwyeewyk
Well-known member
I think the catch is you can only get bonus points by applying for LE and not drawing and then you are awarded a bonus point for future use. I don't think there is a way to buy bonus points without applying and failing to draw LE.
Shangobango
Well-known member
You can buy bonus points without applying.
Shangobango
Well-known member
Their system is so damn confusing. I see now that you were talking about bonus points not preference.
Shangobango
Well-known member
I am still confused by this.
I did not realize that you could be issued a returned combo license without putting your name in the hat for a returned combo. Of all the throwed off things Montana has going on that may be the most asinine of them all.
I an going to have to go back to the regs but what kind of time frame is this on? Has to be before they send the refunds I guess?
So what happens is there's actually 2 draws in the spring. They run the first draw and let's say person A gets a Big Game Combo, person A also applied for a LE elk permit. Person B applies for just an elk combo and doesnt draw.
They run the LE drawing and person A DOESNT draw their LE elk tag so they elect to return the elk portion for a refund.
Now they run all those returned tags through again giving higher preference to people with the most PP. So person B had 2pp and he gets a a "returned elk combo" this would cause him to lose his PP.
Now this is good if you just want to general tag but let's say in 1 year when 3pp isn't 100% and person B wanted a LE elk tag well he just drew a returned tag and has NO CHANCE at his LE tag bc they already ran that. So he loses his 3pp and gets a general elk tag and has to wait 3 more years to potentially get into the LE drawing.
In summary to get a LE tag you need to draw in the first go round. A returned tag given during the draw takes your PP but DOES NOT enter you in the LE drawing.
Edit: this "returned tag" draw is done the same day as the general draw.
The "hat" I am assuming you are thinking of is the Alternates List I the summer you can sign up for and are given a random spot in line. These tags are returned throughout the summer by people who decide to go hunt and return the tag for a refund for whatever reason.
kwyeewyk
Well-known member
You're right, I see that now, was thinking that was for pref pts only.
brocksw
Well-known member
Is there a general consensus among Montanan's that this dual point system needs to be changed?
And the NR crowd! Well the DYI NR crowd the outfitted crowd probably loves it bc it makes moving goal posts easy!
Edwin
Active member
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- Feb 21, 2019
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- 116
Any NR with a significant amount of bonus points should be worried. The permit you want is probably out of reach in your lifetime until the 10% quota actually becomes 10% for NRs and you are actually allowed to be a part of that draw every year.
| Elk Permit | NR Quota | Successful |
| 100 | 2 | 2 |
| 100-01 | 0 | 0 |
| 101-03 | 0 | 0 |
| 102-01 | 0 | 0 |
| 103-00 | 2 | 0 |
| 103-01 | 0 | 0 |
| 104-00 | 2 | 0 |
| 110-00 | 0 | 0 |
| 120-00 | 0 | 0 |
| 120-01 | 0 | 0 |
| 121-01 | 0 | 0 |
| 121-02 | 15 | 3 |
| 122-00 | 0 | 0 |
| 122-01 | 2 | 0 |
| 123-00 | 2 | 0 |
| 123-01 | 0 | 0 |
| 124-00 | 5 | 2 |
| 124-01 | 0 | 0 |
| 130-00 | ||
| 199-00 | 0 | 0 |
| 200-00 | 0 | 0 |
| 201-00 | ||
| 202-00 | 0 | 0 |
| 203-00 | ||
| 204-00 | ||
| 210-02 | ||
| 210-03 | ||
| 211-00 | ||
| 212-00 | ||
| 213-00 | ||
| 214-00 | ||
| 215-01 | ||
| 216-00 | 7 | 3 |
| 217-10 | 17 | 13 |
| 217-11 | 2 | 0 |
| 250-45 | 4 | 3 |
| 261-00 | 3 | 0 |
| 270-45 | ||
| 281-01 | 1 | 1 |
| 282-10 | 0 | 0 |
| 291-02 | 5 | 4 |
| 293-00 | 2 | 1 |
| 310-46 | 0 | 0 |
| 313-00 | 3 | 0 |
| 313-01 | 3 | 2 |
| 313-45 | 5 | 3 |
| 339-20 | 4 | 1 |
| 340-10 | 25 | 15 |
| 380-20 | 13 | 2 |
| 394-00 | 40 | 13 |
| 396-00 | 60 | 15 |
| 401-20 | 5 | 1 |
| 410-20 | 15 | 8 |
| 410-21 | 190 | 176 |
| 411-20 | 30 | 25 |
| 412-20 | 12 | 11 |
| 417-20 | 22 | 21 |
| 420-20 | 8 | 3 |
| 425-20 | 0 | 0 |
| 426-20 | 6 | 6 |
| 441-20 | 3 | 0 |
| 445-20 | 4 | 2 |
| 447-20 | 9 | 6 |
| 450-20 | 0 | 0 |
| 455-20 | 6 | 2 |
| 500-20 | 8 | 5 |
| 502-20 | 0 | 0 |
| 520-20 | 4 | 1 |
| 570-20 | 8 | 6 |
| 575-20 | 2 | 0 |
| 580-20 | 8 | 6 |
| 590-20 | 25 | 14 |
| 590-21 | 8 | 8 |
| 620-20 | 6 | 4 |
| 620-21 | 140 | 136 |
| 621-20 | 5 | 5 |
| 622-20 | 5 | 4 |
| 631-20 | 3 | 0 |
| 631-21 | 20 | 18 |
| 632-20 | 1 | 0 |
| 632-21 | 10 | 10 |
| 690-20 | 3 | 3 |
| 690-21 | 5 | 5 |
| 698-00 | 30 | 27 |
| 700-20 | 24 | 21 |
| 700-21 | 70 | 68 |
| 799-20 | 22 | 19 |
| 900-20 | 400 | 387 |
| Total | 1341 | 1091 |
Carnage2011
Well-known member
I’m sure there is a reason for this that I’m missing, but wouldn’t it just be smarter to do the LE tags first? Draw them and if a NR draws then they automatically get a combo tag. Once the LE draw is done they can draw the remaining combo tags. At least the. Everyone would be in for the LE draw. Am I missing something?
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