Montana on the Upswing?

[tjones]

Back before 270 and 261 (at the time there was no 262) went LE buck/doe ratios were single digits. Some years less than 5 bucks per 100
post season and absolutely no age diversity.

Took us over 2 years and lots of work to convince our bio at the time and Helena to change these units to LE. At the time it had nothing to do with making these units trophy units. Turns out that was a fortunate by product of the change.

What we were trying to do was just increase buck numbers and get age diversity. Lots of ideas were floated around by FWP trying to keep lots of opportunity. Moving the season forward to 10/1 and keeping it general was one.

We finally convinced FWP to go LE. It’s the only way to truly limit the number of bucks killed. Before LE every rutting forky near a road would be dead by end of season.

The bucks in these units are sought after because they have a chance to live to maturity. I’m thinking this plays a bigger factor then genetics.

Now poachers and the tribe are onto them and have been for awhile. More so in 270 because of the vast amount of public land. Kinda tough to poach a swing set buck.

Also my guess is if we were trying change these 2 units from general to LE today not back then we would stand no chance.

 

[Outlaw99]

The dimmest of bulbs are gonna have to see it like buzz says and we got people packing in 3+ miles to shoot a two point and having the time of their lives. No offense outlaw I’m glad you had a good hunt. After seeing the demand for the general 2 point hunt south of Boise, Montana will never hit rock bottom. Better get used to it this is the new normal.

Timmy, I don’t think you’re grasping my thoughts on this. I think Montana should do whatever it needs to do to improve the overall quality of their mule deer herd. The number of points on that deers head had nothing to do with the size of my experience. I’ve got walls full of 160-190” deer all taken unguided, free ranging. I like big antlers as much as the next guy. Had I not been on a time constraint, I would have put as many boot miles as I could to harvest a bigger buck. At $600 invested in a tag, and a few hundred more in fuel to get there and back, I wasnt interested in settling for tag soup if I could avoid it. The same way I wouldn’t pass judgement on someone drawing a NR whitetail tag in Iowa and shooting a 120” 4x4. The time of my life was the country I was hunting and the way the hunt went down, not the dead animal. I wouldn’t trade that 2 point for any of the 4x4’s I could popped out the truck window on private that no one would have ever known anything about. I’m all about Montana doing what’s right for its deer herd, I just more or less was expressing my appreciation for your state and it’s opportunities. Thanks again

 

[ismith]

Top a 60’er? Cutting a 10’er is no different than shooting a 2.5 year old 4x4.

Too many damn pinecones and sap.

 

[timmy]

Timmy, I don’t think you’re grasping my thoughts on this. I think Montana should do whatever it needs to do to improve the overall quality of their mule deer herd. The number of points on that deers head had nothing to do with the size of my experience. I’ve got walls full of 160-190” deer all taken unguided, free ranging. I like big antlers as much as the next guy. Had I not been on a time constraint, I would have put as many boot miles as I could to harvest a bigger buck. At $600 invested in a tag, and a few hundred more in fuel to get there and back, I wasnt interested in settling for tag soup if I could avoid it. The same way I wouldn’t pass judgement on someone drawing a NR whitetail tag in Iowa and shooting a 120” 4x4. The time of my life was the country I was hunting and the way the hunt went down, not the dead animal. I wouldn’t trade that 2 point for any of the 4x4’s I could popped out the truck window on private that no one would have ever known anything about. I’m all about Montana doing what’s right for its deer herd, I just more or less was expressing my appreciation for your state and it’s opportunities. Thanks again

Would the experience be any different had you done it in October? I would guess not. Just frustration boiling over. I did not mean to call you out and would love to come to Iowa and hunt big whiteys.

 

[Outlaw99]

Would the experience be any different had you done it in October? I would guess not. Just frustration boiling over. I did not mean to call you out and would love to come to Iowa and hunt big whiteys.

Let me know if you ever draw

 

[EYJONAS!]

Shit our general areas could grow bucks like that. If there was ever a solution...... yet time and time again there's a rebuttal to every "improving" idea. Shorter season, point restriction, LE areas and taking away the huge opportunity factor, weapon restrictions. It goes on and on.

I don't have the answers are to why those districts are LE in the root or the Bridgers or 652 or The Front. I'm guessing though that some of it has to do with the fact that if they didn't limit it there wouldn't be mulies in that area.

 

[EYJONAS!]

Let me know if you ever draw

Will trade mule deer for 193 typical whitetail. No guarantees on anything bigger than a forkie horn muley though.....

 

[Irrelevant]

Haven't I heard BF and Lawnboy talk about how the bucks in the Bridgers aren't nearly what they used to be, and those a LE now not general, what's happening on those units?

 

[timmy]

Haven't I heard BF and Lawnboy talk about how the bucks in the Bridgers aren't nearly what they used to be, and those a LE now not general, what's happening on those units?

Bridgers needs a fire or some logging imo. Disturbance is good.

 

[Elk247]

You guys have the same problem we have in Minnesota. Good genetics, great habitat, but piss poor management.

 

[timmy]

When they studied the deer in the Bridgers they found that deer from Yellowstone Park were wintering in the foothills of the Bridgers. Does anyone think that is still happening? I am skeptical.

That is crazy.

 

[brockel]

Wife’s grandpa got this off his place in the Crazies back in the 80s. Now you are lucky to see a 18” wide 4x4 there. Pounding away on mule deer through the rut needs to become a draw or end the season before the rut IMO

 

[timmy]

Richland county 1960’s I think

 

[antlerradar]

Think I finally found a late season sanctuary. A lot of up-and-comers still out there. Should be good hunting for the next few years.
View attachment 121511

You put too much scenery in that picture. Nothing but stumps will be there come next year.

 

[brockel]

If y’all think it’s tough to shoot a mature deer in eastern Montana or bull on public in the mountains, try finding a decent Christmas tree within 45 minutes of Bozeman. Unlimited tags at work again...

I’ve got to drive at least 45 minutes before I can even see a pine tree

 

[8andcounting]

Wife’s grandpa got this off his place in the Crazies back in the 80s. Now you are lucky to see a 18” wide 4x4 there. Pounding away on mule deer through the rut needs to become a draw or end the season before the rut IMO
View attachment 121530

Hell of a buck and I agree with everything you’ve said related to mule deer management or lack there off . But just a question cuz I honestly don’t know the answer as a NR . Didn’t the Montana deer season extend over the rut in the 80s ? And couldn’t guys shoot 2 bucks up until the late 80s ? So what has changed ? More hunting pressure ? Less habitat ? Honest questions, like I said I agree with you I just don’t know the history of Montana hunting like you guys do . Thanks !

 

[timmy]

People can afford to do it the technology is there and our Bozeman friends bless your heart have made the info readily available.

 

[brockel]

Hell of a buck and I agree with everything you’ve said related to mule deer management or lack there off . But just a question cuz I honestly don’t know the answer as a NR . Didn’t the Montana deer season extend over the rut in the 80s ? And couldn’t guys shoot 2 bucks up until the late 80s ? So what has changed ? More hunting pressure ? Less habitat ? Honest questions, like I said I agree with you I just don’t know the history of Montana hunting like you guys do . Thanks !

Besides mule deer being on the decline across the west id say more hunting pressure is another big factor for Montana. It wasn’t that long ago that there was left over non resident deer licenses leftover. Montana’s population is always growing and a % of that new population is hunters. More private land being closed off to hunters only pushes more hunters to public land chunks. So public land deer get pounded

GPS chips and OnX maps on your phone make it easier than ever to find places to hunt and to know exactly where you are. No more intimidation of having to read a map in an area you’ve never been before. I think that is a lot of the reasoning for sold out licenses

 

[timmy]

Besides mule deer being on the decline across the west id say more hunting pressure is another big factor for Montana. It wasn’t that long ago that there was left over non resident deer licenses leftover. Montana’s population is always growing and a % of that new population is hunters. More private land being closed off to hunters only pushes more hunters to public land chunks. So public land deer get pounded

GPS chips and OnX maps on your phone make it easier than ever to find places to hunt and to know exactly where you are. No more intimidation of having to read a map in an area you’ve never been before. I think that is a lot of the reasoning for sold out licenses

You said it better than i did

 

[antlerradar]

Hell of a buck and I agree with everything you’ve said related to mule deer management or lack there off . But just a question cuz I honestly don’t know the answer as a NR . Didn’t the Montana deer season extend over the rut in the 80s ? And couldn’t guys shoot 2 bucks up until the late 80s ? So what has changed ? More hunting pressure ? Less habitat ? Honest questions, like I said I agree with you I just don’t know the history of Montana hunting like you guys do . Thanks !

Rut hunt yes, 2 bucks ended in the 70's in SE MT
Things that have changed since the 80's
11,000 region wide doe tags
access to private land is much more difficult
Elk, no longer do we have five weeks of hunting pressure and a few archers in the field. Now there are lots of hunters in the field from the first part of September to after Thanksgiving. Add in youth season, an extra day of rifle season and hundreds of hunters looking to fill a cow tag is it any wonder why deer have over time vacated public land for sanctuaries on private.
hunters have better transportation and technology
hunting in western Montana has declined or went to limited draw.
hunters are more likely to be looking for both venison and antlers than in the past when venison was the primary concern. Many hunters are passing on 20, 30 even close to 100 bucks a year. My bet is that a 5 year old 135 inch 3 by 4 is often getting a pass but that 170 inch 3 year old is never. In short we are now more than ever targeting the bucks in the top half of the antler growth potential bell curve and that is a sure way to grow few truly big deer.