Montana mule deer rant

[Hunt West]

Come on guys… gotta kill’em at 2 years old before CWD kills’em at 3. Isn’t that the latest and greatest “biological” recommendation Montana is just ahead of the curve . I shouldn’t laugh it’s really not funny.

 

[rogerthat]

So, is the sentiment around here such that hunting the rut would only be ok with primitive equipment or under a special permit type tag? Or that hunting the mule deer rut under any circumstance is not "sporting"?

Yup, you name it, I’m on board. It can’t be any worse at this point imo

 

[Nick87]

The most frustrating thing to me with all the "influencers" social media accounts beyond the hashtags is this little thing right here.....

The "likes"..... then followed up with some "personalized groupie bullshit comment" Hoping their idol will give them a like back. Some of the comments are just wow.....

I mean if you want to suck that person off that bad you cumdumpster, why not just ask?! Instead you try and "relate" and "support" them.

GMAFB.....

View attachment 252523

I'm surprised it wasn't 81 million...

 

[Nick87]

What a dumbfuq.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[mtmuley]

What a dumbfuq.

Looks like perfect shot placement as well. mtmuley

 

[TheJason]

Looks like perfect shot placement as well. mtmuley

Right behind the shoulder.

 

[MTGomer]

I would agree. But how would you explain such small differences in success rates between MT and WY?

If 3/10 (or whatever it is) wyomingites/wyomongerers/wyomingtons wtf they’re called can fill their tags when deer are not rutting and out of the high country in mid elevation timber, how much better is their hunting than it is in Montana when harvest rates are w/in 5% of being the same, but Montanans can hunt in Nov when the deer are pushed into the low/open by winter and are every bit as dumb as you and I would be if our wives were only interested in us for 10 days/yr?

Give the WY people a thanksgiving rifle tag and you’d see harvest rates sky rocket for a few years

 

[TheTone]

Right behind the shoulder.

I’m gonna remember that the next time I see one shot in the gut or hip

 

[FREAK]

The most frustrating thing to me with all the "influencers" social media accounts beyond the hashtags is this little thing right here.....

The "likes"..... then followed up with some "personalized groupie bullshit comment" Hoping their idol will give them a like back. Some of the comments are just wow.....

I mean if you want to suck that person off that bad you cumdumpster, why not just ask?! Instead you try and "relate" and "support" them.

GMAFB.....

View attachment 252523

The “like” button makes these social media guys start acting like rutted up bucks…

 

[brocksw]

Random ass WY unit I don't want to hunt. 1 pt draw. Gen season Oct 1-10
View attachment 252625

I'm not even cherry picking. Just randomly picked a unit close to MT.

Listen man, I'm not saying youre wrong. I openly admit I could be wrong. I understand what you're saying. If my numbers are off absolutely, please point them out for the good of the group and my own knowledge.

But I just cannot ignore the huge differences in tag numbers. In 2021 MT gave out over 220k deer tags, just to residents. 160k of those are A tags.
2021 MT gave out a total(R and NR) of 262,000 deer tags.

I think 10 year average success rate for MT is 61%. So about 159,000 mule deer taken off the landscape in MT in 2021.

Wyoming on the other hand, only gave out a total of 80k deer tags. Their published overall success rate is 59%. That's only 47,000 deer coming off the landscape. 112,000 less than MT.

I could be wrong. But I do not believe taking the season out of the in rut will result in a reduction of 112,000 filled tags. That's 70% of total success. There's too many tags.

Axing doe tags will result in an immediate reduction of 73,000 tags. But that's a temporary solution. Numbers fluctuate and MT will have to shoot does again when populations start to rise. But in one season, MT could unleash the orange army and knock em back into the dirt. They could easily give out 100k doe tags. Guys would think it's the best of times, just like the good ol days, as they drove back home with 7 or 8 does in the back of the pick up.

Maybe I'm miscalculating or maybe I'm stupid. Not sure. Certainly not trying to offend anyone. I just don't think taking that many deer off the landscape, in a declining broader population of the American west, and expect those deer to flourish is realistic or smart. Especially given all of the other challenges they face.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This is worth what ya paid for it.

 

[Irrelevant]

Listen man, I'm not saying youre wrong. I openly admit I could be wrong. I understand what you're saying. If my numbers are off absolutely, please point them out for the good of the group and my own knowledge.

But I just cannot ignore the huge differences in tag numbers. In 2021 MT gave out over 220k deer tags, just to residents. 160k of those are A tags.
2021 MT gave out a total(R and NR) of 262,000 deer tags.

I think 10 year average success rate for MT is 61%. So about 159,000 mule deer taken off the landscape in MT in 2021.

Wyoming on the other hand, only gave out a total of 80k deer tags. Their published overall success rate is 59%. That's only 47,000 deer coming off the landscape. 112,000 less than MT.

I could be wrong. But I do not believe taking the season out of the in rut will result in a reduction of 112,000 filled tags. That's 70% of total success. There's too many tags.

Axing doe tags will result in an immediate reduction of 73,000 tags. But that's a temporary solution. Numbers fluctuate and MT will have to shoot does again when populations start to rise. But in one season, MT could unleash the orange army and knock em back into the dirt. They could easily give out 100k doe tags. Guys would think it's the best of times, just like the good ol days, as they drove back home with 7 or 8 does in the back of the pick up.

Maybe I'm miscalculating or maybe I'm stupid. Not sure. Certainly not trying to offend anyone. I just don't think taking that many deer off the landscape, in a declining broader population of the American west, and expect those deer to flourish is realistic or smart. Especially given all of the other challenges they face.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This is worth what ya paid for it.

Idk what you're on, but it's probably illegal in ND and MT.

If MT went to Oct seasons, they'd make WA success rates look good.

 

[brocksw]

If 3/10 (or whatever it is) wyomingites/wyomongerers/wyomingtons wtf they’re called can fill their tags when deer are not rutting and out of the high country in mid elevation timber, how much better is their hunting than it is in Montana when harvest rates are w/in 5% of being the same, but Montanans can hunt in Nov when the deer are pushed into the low/open by winter and are every bit as dumb as you and I would be if our wives were only interested in us for 10 days/yr?

Give the WY people a thanksgiving rifle tag and you’d see harvest rates sky rocket for a few years

Sure, and I concede that it may very well be true. But it's almost irrelevant. Because Wyoming doesn't give out enough tags to make up the difference. Even with 80% success in Wyoming across the board, still not close to MT's take off the landscape.

 

[Irrelevant]

Listen man, I'm not saying youre wrong. I openly admit I could be wrong. I understand what you're saying. If my numbers are off absolutely, please point them out for the good of the group and my own knowledge.

But I just cannot ignore the huge differences in tag numbers. In 2021 MT gave out over 220k deer tags, just to residents. 160k of those are A tags.
2021 MT gave out a total(R and NR) of 262,000 deer tags.

I think 10 year average success rate for MT is 61%. So about 159,000 mule deer taken off the landscape in MT in 2021.

Wyoming on the other hand, only gave out a total of 80k deer tags. Their published overall success rate is 59%. That's only 47,000 deer coming off the landscape. 112,000 less than MT.

I could be wrong. But I do not believe taking the season out of the in rut will result in a reduction of 112,000 filled tags. That's 70% of total success. There's too many tags.

Axing doe tags will result in an immediate reduction of 73,000 tags. But that's a temporary solution. Numbers fluctuate and MT will have to shoot does again when populations start to rise. But in one season, MT could unleash the orange army and knock em back into the dirt. They could easily give out 100k doe tags. Guys would think it's the best of times, just like the good ol days, as they drove back home with 7 or 8 does in the back of the pick up.

Maybe I'm miscalculating or maybe I'm stupid. Not sure. Certainly not trying to offend anyone. I just don't think taking that many deer off the landscape, in a declining broader population of the American west, and expect those deer to flourish is realistic or smart. Especially given all of the other challenges they face.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This is worth what ya paid for it.

BTW MT success on mule deer is ~30 % statewide.

 

[BRI]

There's still some good bucks out there plus hundreds of deer. Hell this guy strolled right in front of me as I was leaving the gas station. Too bad they just happen to be in the city limits. I'd bet a beer they are included and counted in the overall management unit though.

 

[TheJason]

I think 10 year average success rate for MT is 61%. So about 159,000 mule deer taken off the landscape in MT in 2021.

Wyoming on the other hand, only gave out a total of 80k deer tags. Their published overall success rate is 59%. That's only 47,000 deer coming off the landscape. 112,000 less than MT.

I could be wrong. But I do not believe taking the season out of the in rut will result in a reduction of 112,000 filled tags. That's 70% of total success. There's too many tags.

You’re also comparing apples and oranges. MT is 1.5x bigger than Wyoming, with arguably some of the most productive prairie grassland habitat around.

You also can’t assume the produce deer at exactly the same rate. I’d wager MT can produce more deer per acre, sustainably, than WY.

 

[brocksw]

You’re also comparing apples and oranges. MT is 1.5x bigger than Wyoming, with arguably some of the most productive prairie grassland habitat around.

You also can’t assume the produce deer at exactly the same rate. I’d wager MT can produce more deer per acre, sustainably, than WY.

I don't argue any of that.

 

[FREAK]

Something like this seems like a good start:

1) no doe tags unless greatly over objective in the unit. Use doe tags to regulate population (“adaptive harvest management methods” currently used by fwp)

2)no modern rifle hunting after the first weekend in November for any unit except for archery hunting or special permit units by region. If a tag is drawn the person could only hunt that unit during the entire season(archery, rifle).

This could be a simple approach that Montana FWP could comprehend and actually implement with little complexity.

 

[TheJason]

I don't argue any of that.

Well then you can’t just compare raw numbers straight across

 

[brocksw]

Well then you can’t just compare raw numbers straight across

All the carrying capacity in the world doesn't matter if you're shooting 160,000 deer out of herd of just over 300,000.

 

[TheJason]