Montana mule deer rant

[Nameless Range]

How about no public land mule deer doe tags unless over objective, mandatory harvest reporting and if you kill a buck this year you aren’t eligible for a tag the following year. Might make a few people more selective and still gives people plenty of opportunity. Would really show who the people are that say “it’s not about the kill” yet punch their tag last day of the season every year. Wonder how most Montanans would go for that because let’s be honest FWP isn’t going to a single thing to help the mule deer unless non resident tags go unsold. It’s all about opportunity herd health be damned

I like that idea but I can hear it now:

“i’M fEeDing mY faMiLy wIth ThOsE BucKs….”


I’m not sure how you get a conversation started with FWP that even has a remote chance of being successful for improving things, but there’s a lot of good ideas on here and I think it’s undeniable our trajectory is eff’d. Whatever it is Montanans can do to get that ball rolling whether it is Sisyphean or not, I’m for it.

On a personal side note I feel I’m getting jaded. It’s HuntTalk, it’s the giant pile of social media pages dedicated to hunting in Montana, it’s the change in the landscape in my short life. I’m bothered by it because I know better, and have killed my fair share of rutting teenage bucks - 2 points or whatever. I think back to some of those days and they were wonderful and I didn’t feel an ounce of regret. Now I find myself rooting for deer, looking at pictures of 2.5 year old 4-points next to a happy hunter with a knee-jerk disappointment, which is wrong and a loser’s way of thinking. The things you see and read influence your mind no matter how powerful you believe your mind is, and sometimes I wonder if I should just refrain from the Internet from September - December.

Whatever the change is, it has to be structural via tags/hunters/rules/season dates. Passing judgement, hidden or otherwise, on individuals, I think will actually work against us. I write that for myself.

 

[brockel]

On a personal side note I feel I’m getting jaded. It’s HuntTalk, it’s the giant pile of social media pages dedicated to hunting in Montana, it’s the change in the landscape in my short life. I’m bothered by it because I know better, and have killed my fair share of rutting teenage bucks - 2 points or whatever. I think back to some of those days and they were wonderful and I didn’t feel an ounce of regret. Now I find myself rooting for deer, looking at pictures of 2.5 year old 4-points next to a happy hunter with a knee-jerk disappointment, which is wrong and a loser’s way of thinking. The things you see and read influence your mind no matter how powerful you believe your mind is, and sometimes I wonder if I should just refrain from the Internet from September - December.

100% with you on that.

 

[brockel]

sometimes you gotta just be okay with not punching a tag.

Had a coworker yesterday show me a picture of his buck he shot. Then said “definitely not the biggest deer but will
Make good jerky”. I told him you don’t have to fill your tag every year. He responded with “I paid for it so I’m filling it”. I think that’s most Montanans mindset. That $20 tag has to be punched. Just needs $300 in fuel to do it

 

[EYJONAS!]

Had a coworker yesterday show me a picture of his buck he shot. Then said “definitely not the biggest deer but will
Make good jerky”. I told him you don’t have to fill your tag every year. He responded with “I paid for it so I’m filling it”. I think that’s most Montanans mindset. That $20 tag has to be punched. Just needs $300 in fuel to do it

Imagine that times 40. I can't imagine forking out the amount NR do for a front row ticket to sheer disappointment.

Does your buddy fill his 20 dollar elk tag to?

 

[SAJ-99]

So have I, This chatter is exponentially higher than when I first started to suggest we needed to change things up to maintain what we had in the 90's.

Agree. But just remember that someone coming from out of state didn’t hear that chatter. If they aren’t on social media and don’t really pay attention, there is no way they know. It wasn’t until the end of the trip people (R and NR alike) started to say it seemed numbers were down. Maybe part of the problem is education?

That $20 tag has to be punched.

LOL. I ate the equivalent of 30 of those tags and spent way more in gas more for the pleasure of doing it.

 

[brockel]

Imagine that times 40. I can't imagine forking out the amount NR do for a front row ticket to sheer disappointment.

Does your buddy fill his 20 dollar elk tag to?

Tough to kill an elk from the pickup. A lot easier with a rutting mule deer. Funny how that rut hunting works

 

[EYJONAS!]

Tough to kill an elk from the pickup. A lot easier with a rutting mule deer. Funny how that rut hunting works.

Sounds like he needs to head to Norris.

#flockshot
#fishinabarrel

 

[Irrelevant]

I can't imagine forking out the amount NR do for a front row ticket to sheer disappointment.

You can't? First, try not seeing a deer during deer season. Selective? Fawk. Second, those NRs aren't disappointed. And as long as their home states sink as fast as montana they never will be.

 

[EYJONAS!]

What was the situation with ND and why they put a hault on their mule deer hunting opportunities and what does it look like now compared to what it was?

Sounds like they needed to bring the mule deer back from the brink?

Now there's limited opportunities to hunt them but, there is still a decent chance if you are a res?

I know a few buddies that have done the NR archery option.

And no, i don't want to hear that ND doesn't have good mule deer cause that's bullshit.

 

[EYJONAS!]

You can't? First, try not seeing a deer during deer season. Selective? Fawk. Second, those NRs aren't disappointed. And as long as their home states sink as fast as montana they never will be.

Well you live in Washington soooo.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Said he spent 12 days in deer camp, sometimes you gotta just be okay with not punching a tag.

What are the odds he’s actually going to take that to a taxidermist to have it mounted?

Regardless of the circumstances and precision details - that post is telling of hunting, the state of Montana mule deer, and the volumes of “followers”.

#selective?

For the record - if I had a deer license and that very buck would have shown itself to me this week while I was hunting with my son, it would probably have been shot by either of us and we’d have been very happy. Times have changed.

 

[brockel]

What was the situation with ND and why they put a hault on their mule deer hunting opportunities and what does it look like now compared to what it was?

Sounds like they needed to bring the mule deer back from the brink?

Now there's limited opportunities to hunt them but, there is still a decent chance if you are a res?

I know a few buddies that have done the NR archery option.

And no, i don't want to hear that ND doesn't have good mule deer cause that's bullshit.

Working in North Dakota for the last 15 years I’ve seen some really big mule deer on public land. More than I’ve seen in Montana actually looking for them over the same time period and it’s not even close

Here’s one I have on my phone from ND

 

[Carnage2011]

Friday morning I was glassing in a unit that is general but has some big deer. I got there before daylight and was the first one there. Shortly after daylight there 7 vehicles. Four of them pulled up and took off hiking…a couple stayed to glass. Pretty quick a guy comes over and asks my plan. I told him that there was nothing decent so I was going to keep glassing. He responds with “man that forky over there is pretty solid.” I looked at him like he had ten heads and he explained that I was there before him so he was giving me first choice but he’d be headed after him if I wasn’t going. He packed his stuff and took off after it.

Fast forward 10ish minutes and here comes one of the other hunters back to his truck. He’s packing a deer but I can’t see horns so I assume it’s a doe. He sets his pack on his tailgate and says hi to me. I said “oh you got one huh?” He said “yep, walked over the hill and he was there with two does so I hammered him.” I still can’t see a buck on his pack so I said “oh, you headed back for another load?” He says “nope I got it all!” So I hop out and walk over to look at it….it was a 1x2 that might have had 8” of antler total. He gave me the typical “he’s not the biggest but I couldn’t pass up a buck” I just smiled and said congrats.

This whole time a guy had been parked behind me in an older toyota with a topper. He comes over to us to chat after awhile and says he killed a “big 4” on thanks giving right where we are looking. He’s all excited and offers to show us. He opens the topper and pulls out a 70” 4 point that he has caped for a shoulder mount. This guy was a young kid going to college in Montana that grew up on the east coast. He killed the biggest buck he had seen in Montana since he moved here. I was happy for the kid and told him congrats. I’d much rather see people like that shoot a buck they are excited about (even if it isn’t a mature deer) than the guy who shot the dink just to shoot a buck.

I went home and called it a season after that morning!

 

[EYJONAS!]

Working in North Dakota for the last 15 years I’ve seen some really big mule deer on public land. More than I’ve seen in Montana actually looking for them over the same time period and it’s not even close

Here’s one I have on my phone from ND
View attachment 252369
View attachment 252370

There's no doubt that what ever they decided to do and why has worked very well for them.

 

[RobertD]

Working in North Dakota for the last 15 years I’ve seen some really big mule deer on public land. More than I’ve seen in Montana actually looking for them over the same time period and it’s not even close

Here’s one I have on my phone from ND
View attachment 252369
View attachment 252370

Far right buck don't look too shabby either

 

[Nick87]

If you were trying to reduce age structure of bucks and overall heard numbers what do you think would be the most efficient way?

Short answer liberal doe tags and rifle hunting during the rut. Just saying.

 

[MTTW]

I am sitting out the last day of season with a tag in my pocket for the first time ever. It is not unusual for me to eat a deer tag, but I have never quit before it was over.

I have not seen a decent buck in 4 years but that is not why I am sitting out. When the end of season has come around in the past, I would consider my options and pick what I thought was the best place and go hunt it like it was the first day of season. I have actually had a fair amount of success doing this, but this year is different.

At the end of season last year, I decided that decent mule deer hunting was probably behind me after close to 50 years of it being a top priority. Going forward, I would focus mainly on killing a good bull while I know where some are, and I am able to get there. One week into season I cut my elk tag on a good bull and was left with 4 weeks to hunt deer.
Last night my wife asked me if I was going hunting today and I said no. My problem is that when I look back at my season, I don't know of a single place that I have hunted where I stand any chance of seeing a deer. I am not talking a mature buck. I am talking a public land mule deer. In my last 6 days of hunting, I saw a doe and a fawn.

I sat on a hill in eastern MT this year and could see 300 mule deer without moving. It was totally exceptional conditions with heavy snow cover and well below zero. It had been foggy for a couple of days, so hunting was very limited. I had seen this situation once before about 20 years ago. 20 years ago, we saw numerous older age class bucks and I have always felt that it was probably the best deer hunting that I would ever see. I was right. This year we saw 1 buck that I would guess was 3, the movie star's buck pictured above puts it to shame. There was plenty of season left for these concentrated, winter range deer to be hammered to a never seen before buck to doe ratio. We looked around for a couple of days, shot a $400 coyote and drove home.

Was I satisfied with my season? I don't even know what that means but I would bet that some of the guys that I saw out there hunting those young deer were experiencing the best mule deer hunting of their lives. To them I say, "savor it because next year will be worse."
Mule deer are screwed.
The end.

 

[brockel]

If you were trying to reduce age structure of bucks and overall heard numbers what do you think would be the most efficient way?

Short answer liberal doe tags and rifle hunting during the rut. Just saying.

Our biologist told me that there is no proof that rut hunting effects age structure. I didn’t have much to say after that

 

[brockel]

Far right buck don't look too shabby either

Picture was taken in July so they had a little growing to do yet

 

[brockel]

There's no doubt that what ever they decided to do and why has worked very well for them.

I never did get a good look at this guy