Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[DFS]

Looks like an older buck must have long beams to get to 160?

 

[sclancy27]

Looks like an older buck must have long beams to get to 160?

They are decent, 23".

 

[Mtn-time]

You think there are a lot of coyotes until you talk to the guys shooting them out of the planes. It’ll blow your mind. I know of a ranch(not a huge ranch) with a feed lot that they flew last winter and killed around 150 in a day just on and right near that ranch.

I know a farmer that paid for his plane in two winters shooting coyotes back in the 1980's when fur prices were high. They'd pick em up with snowmobiles.

 

[DFS]

Curious of the hunt talk members that made the cut for the mule deer advisory council? I know of a couple and I am pleased with the choices. I unfortunately will not be able to give ideas to help a struggling mule deer herd.

 

[antlerradar]

Curious of the hunt talk members that made the cut for the mule deer advisory council? I know of a couple and I am pleased with the choices. I unfortunately will not be able to give ideas to help a struggling mule deer herd.

So far I only know of two HT members, Eric and myself. I hope there are a few more.

 

[cgasner1]

I know a 3rd ht member he lurks and from time to time adds stuff also a great pic

 

[cgasner1]

I’ve met 2 guys that were selected thru the group that we put together. I also know 2 others that were selected. They made some good picks from the people I know or have met.

 

[mtnkid85]

Curious of the hunt talk members that made the cut for the mule deer advisory council? I know of a couple and I am pleased with the choices. I unfortunately will not be able to give ideas to help a struggling mule deer herd.

Yep, I got selected too!

 

[Eric Albus]

There was a long time I didn’t believe that coyotes killed many deer. My views have changed. Especially when there is deep snow

They don’t need deep snow. Coyotes will take a deer anytime they want to, and not just sick, young, or injured. I’ve seen perfectly healthy mature buck deer at dusk reduced to nothing but ears/nose/antlers by daybreak.

 

[MTTW]

In the Missouri Breaks mule deer study back in the day they found that hard frozen ground conditions made footing poor in the steep breaks and washes that mule deer use in winter in that country. Predation from coyotes would go way up then, and that condition was much more frequent than deep snow conditions. Something that I had never considered.

 

[brockel]

In the Missouri Breaks mule deer study back in the day they found that hard frozen ground conditions made footing poor in the steep breaks and washes that mule deer use in winter in that country. Predation from coyotes would go way up then, and that condition was much more frequent than deep snow conditions. Something that I had never considered.

Walk the draws in 410. Nearly every one has lots of bones in it. Lots of coyotes in that area too. Only going to be worse with fur prices down until Mother Nature knocks them back with mange.

 

[John B. Sullivan III]

Non-residents harvest more mule deer bucks than residents in NE Montana
https://helenair.com/opinion/column...cle_fa2201a8-3210-5df6-ab19-36ac37e5125e.html

"According to an FWP Interoffice Memorandum dated 5/6/2024, the “total Region 6 mule deer harvest in 2023 was estimated at 9,986, 28% above the 26-year average” and — for the first time ever - non-residents harvested more antlered mule deer than Montana residents in Region 6.

The memo added that “antlerless harvest in 2023 was 35% above the 26-year average, with resident hunters making up 54% of the antlerless mule deer harvest.” So a pile of does are being killed by hunters too, and nearly half of them (46%) by non-residents."

In my opinion we should not consider proposals that restrict residents hunters until the nonresident hunter has been put in check.

 

[Forkyfinder]

Non-residents harvest more mule deer bucks than residents in NE Montana
https://helenair.com/opinion/column...cle_fa2201a8-3210-5df6-ab19-36ac37e5125e.html

"According to an FWP Interoffice Memorandum dated 5/6/2024, the “total Region 6 mule deer harvest in 2023 was estimated at 9,986, 28% above the 26-year average” and — for the first time ever - non-residents harvested more antlered mule deer than Montana residents in Region 6.

The memo added that “antlerless harvest in 2023 was 35% above the 26-year average, with resident hunters making up 54% of the antlerless mule deer harvest.” So a pile of does are being killed by hunters too, and nearly half of them (46%) by non-residents."

In my opinion we should not consider proposals that restrict residents hunters until the nonresident hunter has been put in check.

why does anyone need to shoot a doe when there arent any, R or NR?

 

[DFS]

It looks like nonresident mule deer harvest exceeded residents again in region 7. The management needs to change but any change needs to include nonresident caps for region 6 and 7. The agency should have been on top of this. Very disappointing.

 

[Forkyfinder]

It looks like nonresident mule deer harvest exceeded residents again in region 7. The management needs to change but any change needs to include nonresident caps for region 6 and 7. The agency should have been on top of this. Very disappointing.

curious - as you seem to have the data - where has this trended? As in - was this a lot different last year, 5 years ago, or 10?

I would expect NR harvest to be higher in these areas as compared to others - because of the private land outfitting.

Not disagreeing there should be more done.

 

[DFS]

curious - as you seem to have the data - where has this trended? As in - was this a lot different last year, 5 years ago, or 10?

I would expect NR harvest to be higher in these areas as compared to others - because of the private land outfitting.

Not disagreeing there should be more done.

FWP :: Harvest Estimates

 

[Forkyfinder]

FWP :: Harvest Estimates

alright - you can call me dumb now as is typically obliged

i never even bothered to look at R vs NR harvest and as a consequence didnt realize it was available.

 

[MNElkNut]

My only question is how do they know?

 

[sclancy27]

Non-residents harvest more mule deer bucks than residents in NE Montana
https://helenair.com/opinion/column...cle_fa2201a8-3210-5df6-ab19-36ac37e5125e.html

"According to an FWP Interoffice Memorandum dated 5/6/2024, the “total Region 6 mule deer harvest in 2023 was estimated at 9,986, 28% above the 26-year average” and — for the first time ever - non-residents harvested more antlered mule deer than Montana residents in Region 6.

The memo added that “antlerless harvest in 2023 was 35% above the 26-year average, with resident hunters making up 54% of the antlerless mule deer harvest.” So a pile of does are being killed by hunters too, and nearly half of them (46%) by non-residents."

In my opinion we should not consider proposals that restrict residents hunters until the nonresident hunter has been put in check.

Where was that argument for R7 in 2012-2015?

The following graphs (for R6 and R7 MD buck harvest) show the problem in having regional caps, for R or NR UNLESS you have a quota system ala AZ archery OTC. If FWP is going to go through the trouble figuring out a quota as populations ebb and flow, you might as well do LE, which removes opportunity for everyone (tho does hit NR harder, and therefore budget, as it introduces the 10% rule).



@Gerald Martin et al's proposal helps to tame this pressure (and I would make an argument for hunter distribution both R and NR) by reducing the incentive for mule deer, therefore decreasing pressure. Right now, there is huge incentive from NR (and R) to hunt 2 weeks of a 12-week season (archery and rifle) due to the massively increased vulnerability of mule deer bucks from Nov 13 to the end of the season. Under the proposed archery and rifle seasons, that incentive is removed. We may not have to address regional caps (and the shitshow that would ensue) by letting folks spread out over archery and rifle more vs what is currently happening.

 

[The Hedgehog]

Where was that argument for R7 in 2012-2015?

The following graphs (for R6 and R7 MD buck harvest) show the problem in having regional caps, for R or NR UNLESS you have a quota system ala AZ archery OTC. If FWP is going to go through the trouble figuring out a quota as populations ebb and flow, you might as well do LE, which removes opportunity for everyone (tho does hit NR harder, and therefore budget, as it introduces the 10% rule).
View attachment 329496View attachment 329497


@Gerald Martin et al's proposal helps to tame this pressure (and I would make an argument for hunter distribution both R and NR) by reducing the incentive for mule deer, therefore decreasing pressure. Right now, there is huge incentive from NR (and R) to hunt 2 weeks of a 12-week season (archery and rifle) due to the massively increased vulnerability of mule deer bucks from Nov 13 Nov 1 to the end of the season. Under the proposed archery and rifle seasons, that incentive is removed. We may not have to address regional caps (and the shitshow that would ensue) by letting folks spread out over archery and rifle more vs what is currently happening.

Fixed it for you.