Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[FREAK]

Shut all general deer hunting down in November, ALL of November, statewide.
Imagine the tears from 90% of the MT hunters, the outfitters, landowners, etc. Nobody willing to give anything up.
Enjoy the "mature" 2 year old deer hunts.

But GH, i'm really proud of my buddies 2.5yo deranged 3x1. I gotta feed my family dude.

 

[8andcounting]

Proposed regulations for coming seasons here- a couple good things to see that we as hunters should be commenting on to encourage (410 + 417 going LE, and 426 having a shorter general season with permit only for the later rut dates) and a fair share of bad we should also be addressing (more B tags!).

Comments are due November 21st.

Fish And Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023 | Montana FWP

Fish and Wildlife Commission Meeting: December 14, 2023

fwp.mt.gov

I think 426 should go LE too . 426 gets alot of deer hunters , my fear of eliminating just the last 2 weeks of season is that it’s just gonna be same amount of hunters packed into a shorter time . And some years they are ruttin like crazy well before November 17 . The same amount of deer will get shot . It’s good to see them atleast talking about change tho

 

[MTTW]

Even ending November 17th isn’t going to cause much change. FWP likes to stick a toe in the water with what might be a wise decision, but they'll never do anything drastic enough that will result in noteworthy improvement. How about let all the general opportunity we have now with rifle season all of October and archery all of September, along with elk? Statewide. Imagine all the MT hunters that would squeal. In about 5 years everybody would be wishing it would have been done decades ago.

Something much like this is what needs to happen. You have to give up Thanksgiving entitlement week. Once you acknowledge that, just move it to October statewide even the LE areas. It is the responsible thing to do and so simple. Anything else is just a Band-Aid here and maybe another Band-Aid over there.
Wishful thinking.

 

[8andcounting]

The entire state should be limited entry no more free for all go wherever whenever . Decide where you are gonna hunt and apply for that area . It’s not really that hard .

 

[rogerthat]

The entire state should be limited entry no more free for all go wherever whenever . Decide where you are gonna hunt and apply for that area . It’s not really that hard .

I think we should try an October general season first but I agree with what your saying about ending the free for all

 

[brockel]

I think we should try an October general season first but I agree with what your saying about ending the free for all

I think we should do general rifle October with a draw for a November muzzleloader tag. But the kicker is if you apply for the November tag whether you draw or not you cannot have a general tag. Could even possibly leave it as a rifle hunt in November. Would be a way to eliminate some pressure. And in a few short years that November draw tag would be a hell of a tag.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I think we should do general rifle October with a draw for a November muzzleloader tag. But the kicker is if you apply for the November tag whether you draw or not you cannot have a general tag. Could even possibly leave it as a rifle hunt in November. Would be a way to eliminate some pressure. And in a few short years that November draw tag would be a hell of a tag.

screw that.

FWP would just give out thousands of draw tags for November. That's how they roll. It's kinda like how they think they're removing rut hunting by cutting 2 weeks off the tail end of the season. Right.

Give it 5 years and see what happens.

 

[cgasner1]

Taking the muzzy for a walk tomorrow doubt I load it not really very excited about it either for some odd reason

 

[brockel]

 

[The Hedgehog]

View attachment 300586

Mr. Biology genius is assuming, given we won’t change our current style of mismanagement, you’ll need 256,987,876 deer in region 7 to have that number of 4-5 year old deer.

 

[Tlrussell]

View attachment 300586

Danger Zone!

 

[easternmt]

View attachment 300586

I would like to see 1 out of every five bucks seen to be in this age class but even 1 out of every 10 or even 20 would be an improvement.

 

[brockel]

I would like to see 1 out of every five bucks seen to be in this age class but even 1 out of every 10 or even 20 would be an improvement.

I think 1 out of 50 would be an improvement

 

[Bambistew]

Come on guys. 80% of the units have buck to doe ratios of 20:100 or more per the study I linked a while back. What does the latest management plans include? If I remember right, many of them were less than 10:100, some in the 7-8 range. I can't wait to see the math on their end. None of their numbers corelate. B:d ratios, vs harvest vs population estimate. They are all modeled independently, and none of them line up, but I don't know chit about chit.

Has there been any independent age class studies done? As in what % of deer are being killed at a certain age?

 

[brockel]

It is nice to finally see these Facebook posts with almost everyone having the same opinion that something needs to change. You wouldn’t have seen that 5 years ago. Not that it matters in fwps management eyes I guess

 

[DFS]

Come on guys. 80% of the units have buck to doe ratios of 20:100 or more per the study I linked a while back. What does the latest management plans include? If I remember right, many of them were less than 10:100, some in the 7-8 range. I can't wait to see the math on their end. None of their numbers corelate. B:d ratios, vs harvest vs population estimate. They are all modeled independently, and none of them line up, but I don't know chit about chit.

Has there been any independent age class studies done? As in what % of deer are being killed at a certain age?

I think there are a few individuals that have tried maybe even the forest service, to provide some data. Too little too late unfortunately. We are unfortunately working with their data set which you don’t get to see. I can go in and try to explain the changes I’ve seen and that’s just anecdotal and means nothing. I’ve tried. The public expects the agency to be forthcoming and protective of a species, especially one in decline. It’s not happening. Burn it down that’s where it’s headed. For some reason it always spins into a big buck argument, they have population issues in many areas. When the population drops and you apply the same amount of pressure you are going to see some serious impacts, and that is where we are at.

 

[FREAK]

If you want your blood to boil, Fast forward to minute 7:30, watch this grown ass man act like a 9 year old after he shoots his 4K$ rifle 3 times (last one skylined) at a 2.5yo 3pt buck. That short scene sums up a lot of what’s wrong with MD hunting in Montana. What a freaking joke. I don’t know if I can even take the rifle out after watching that.

Come on out to Montana and get your first 3pt MD Buck. I left a comment for them, it wasn’t very nice.

 

[cgasner1]

If you want your blood to boil, Fast forward to minute 7:30, watch this grown ass man act like a 9 year old after he shoots his 4K$ rifle 3 times (last one skylined) at a 2.5yo 3pt buck. That short scene sums up a lot of what’s wrong with MD hunting in Montana. What a freaking joke. I don’t know if I can even take the rifle out after watching that.

Come on out to Montana and get your first 3pt MD Buck. I left a comment for them, it wasn’t very nice.

We saw 3 bucks on public and we killed all 3 yup welcome to Montana

 

[The Hedgehog]

Let’s pause this thread for some Montana “Muley Monday” home taxidermy viewing..

 

[antlerradar]

I had to think about it last night and I am not that good at counting past 10, but I can remember seeing, finding antlers from or friends shooting at least forty 170 inch bucks in the Tongue River breaks in the last half of the 80's. I am betting everyone of them was at least four years old. It is also safe to assume that there was just as may four year old bucks with lessor antlers that have faded from my memory. I am sure I didn't see them all, but lets just say that there was at least 100 four year old bucks in the breaks in the last five years of the 80's to be super conservative. A population of 20 a year in approximately 50 square miles. Should be able to estimate the deer population in the 80's right.

For prospective in the last ten years I have been able to locate one 170 inch buck in the same area.