Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement

[SAJ-99]

The overwhelming consensus from hunters is far different than some of the opinions you read here.

Those that think everything is fine typically get run off the thread.

I will say it again, humans are generally lazy creatures. If you want to get a broad view on opinions, you have to make it easy for people to give them. In this case, the easiest way FWP allows is the public comment. Read the public comments on the mule deer plan. You don't have to agree with them, or disagree, just read them to get a general idea of where people stand. If would be nice to see less vitriol directed at FWP and move that effort to implementing change.

keep speaking up.

Absolutely. Maybe just ask, or even beg FWP for some type of change. Anything.

Any change helps fill in the gaps of missing information. FWP does love to dismiss things based on speculation of what might happen. There is a laundry list of things that can be addressed.
- Better harvest collection
- Separate Elk, Mule Deer and WT deer tags into separate permits
- Quotas
- Pick a weapon
- Pick a unit
- Pick a unit with the option to buy a permit for a second or third unit (at least you collect more R money)

I admit some of the changes might be logistically difficult, especially for an organization that can't run its own draw without a screw up, but FWP shouldn't be allowed to dismiss ideas out-of-hand because of what they feel might happen.

 

[DFS]

Whether most Montanans hold different opinions than those that prevail on here or not, we should keep speaking up. I've seen, and sense, a change in the trend of thoughts toward mule deer. Sure, not enough to be called a majority or large fraction, but more than ever. Conversations and statement from folks happen today that would've never happened years ago. It may just take a long dang time to turn this ship around.

Maybe it is a regional thing but since I have been attending meetings for the last 10 years or so the comments have been overwhelmingly advocating for change and concern of our mule deer herd. It’s just falling on deaf ears.

 

[Elky Welky]

Those that think everything is fine typically get run off the thread.

Very true. Simply saying something like: "hey, I'm new to this issue and haven't seen the problems you are seeing, can someone explain?" is more likely to lead to getting run off, particularly on this thread.

To say some people have very strong feelings about mule deer in MT is an understatement.

 

[SAJ-99]

Very true. Simply saying something like: "hey, I'm new to this issue and haven't seen the problems you are seeing, can someone explain?" is more likely to lead to getting run off, particularly on this thread.

To say some people have very strong feelings about mule deer in MT is an understatement.

Strong feelings aren't the problem. Passion is great. But when those opinions are formed with confirmation bias, tunnel vision, and an unwillingness to compromise with anyone that might disagree we lose the ability to be heard. All that's left is complaining on the internet about who's in charge.

 

[cgasner1]

Why let 18 and under hunt the rut? All that will do is have more dads buying deer tags for their kids and then have their kids sitting in the pickup while the dads' hunt. I'm not saying everyone will do it, but it happens every year in MT and ND.

And that’s different from the pre youth hunt we have now? I’d personally like to see that go away and have them hunt then. Which as of right now they can anyways

 

[JLS]

#doit4thechildren

 

[brocksw]

when those opinions are formed with confirmation bias, tunnel vision, and an unwillingness to compromise with anyone that might disagree we lose the ability to be heard. All that's left is complaining on the internet about who's in charge.

That's never happened in the history of the human race...

 

[antlerradar]

Very true. Simply saying something like: "hey, I'm new to this issue and haven't seen the problems you are seeing, can someone explain?" is more likely to lead to getting run off, particularly on this thread.

To say some people have very strong feelings about mule deer in MT is an understatement.

I would like to think that if you can get past the sarcasm and the inside jokes, you can find some posts that give peoples reasoning fairly well.

 

[rogerthat]

Billings meeting was interesting, also had 20+ in the room.

I found the conversation to actually be more aligned with what I see here: more hunters interested in big buck quality, and some pretty strong complaints about continuing hunting in late November. It surprised me when I saw that was the opinion on here, and also surprised to see it in Billings. I think the Western MT hunters and Eastern MT hunters have very different views on mule deer in MT. As originally a western Montanan, I've found ample opportunity and numbers in Eastern MT, but people from that side of the state seem quite concerned.

CWD was also a big topic of discussion, but the tone of the room made me feel FWP was more concerned about it than the hunters, who instead seemed, again, more concerned about getting to shoot big bucks.

I wasn’t at the Billings meeting so I can’t speak for those guys but it’s been common to simplify sportsman concerns for mule deer into “folks concerned with shooting more big bucks”. Fwps staff will even imply that it’s our selfish desire to kill big bucks. It’s much more than that. Here is the deal, there are drainages in eastern montana on public land that used to have hundreds of deer in them. Now they have a few small little herds. This is the trend and has been for decades. I find that concerning. The big bucks were the first to go. No one listened when I expressed concern over them. I was just concerned with killing big bucks. Many folks have too short of time horizon/experience in the area to see these changes. That’s understandable. You don’t know what you don’t know. But it will be better to make changes now. The longer we wait the less likelihood we can turn the trend. There simply won’t be deer on public to do it.

 

[DFS]

I wasn’t at the Billings meeting so I can’t speak for those guys but it’s been common to simplify sportsman concerns for mule deer into “folks concerned with shooting more big bucks”. Fwps staff will even imply that it’s our selfish desire to kill big bucks. It’s much more than that. Here is the deal, there are drainages in eastern montana on public land that used to have hundreds of deer in them. Now they have a few small little herds. This is the trend and has been for decades. I find that concerning. The big bucks were the first to go. No one listened when I expressed concern over them. I was just concerned with killing big bucks. Many folks have too short of time horizon/experience in the area to see these changes. That’s understandable. You don’t know what you don’t know. But it will be better to make changes now. The longer we wait the less likelihood we can turn the trend. There simply won’t be deer on public to do it.

Say it louder so the people in the back can hear you.

Might be good for people to read this several times.

 

[Deleted member 18333]

Crazy how Montanans struggle to understand one can kill deer in October.

Big Fin is right. The overwhelming consensus from hunters is far different than some of the opinions you read here.

Maybe the MT folks on here should just try to get Thanksgiving moved to the last Thursday in October. Everyone gets what they want. Probably a higher likelihood of happening than ending the Thanksgiving weekend MD season.

 

[Elky Welky]

I wasn’t at the Billings meeting so I can’t speak for those guys but it’s been common to simplify sportsman concerns for mule deer into “folks concerned with shooting more big bucks”. Fwps staff will even imply that it’s our selfish desire to kill big bucks. It’s much more than that. Here is the deal, there are drainages in eastern montana on public land that used to have hundreds of deer in them. Now they have a few small little herds. This is the trend and has been for decades. I find that concerning. The big bucks were the first to go. No one listened when I expressed concern over them. I was just concerned with killing big bucks. Many folks have too short of time horizon/experience in the area to see these changes. That’s understandable. You don’t know what you don’t know. But it will be better to make changes now. The longer we wait the less likelihood we can turn the trend. There simply won’t be deer on public to do it.

I'm not going to disagree with anything you are saying here, it all makes perfect sense to me. I'll also say the opposite also seems to be just as true, where some are only speaking from their singular locations and observations in one specific spot that they know very well, without considering management of mule deer in MT state wide.

 

[rogerthat]

I'm not going to disagree with anything you are saying here, it all makes perfect sense to me. I'll also say the opposite also seems to be just as true, where some are only speaking from their singular locations and observations in one specific spot that they know very well, without considering management of mule deer in MT state wide.

I can give you more of a biography if you want over pm but I have spent the last 25 years hunting a sheet load all over Montana. 25 years ago I hunted primarily around Butte, Montana spent some time in the northwest corner of the state, the Bridger mountains, way down along the state line to the south of Butte. I occasionally go back to these areas. For the last decade and a half primarily eastern and central Montana. I’m not aware of an area for mule deer that is better than it was 20 years ago in the state are you?

 

[mtmuley]

I’m not aware of an area for mule deer that is better than it was 20 years ago in the state are you?

Couple LE areas near me but that don't count in the grand scheme. mtmuley

 

[cgasner1]

I'm not going to disagree with anything you are saying here, it all makes perfect sense to me. I'll also say the opposite also seems to be just as true, where some are only speaking from their singular locations and observations in one specific spot that they know very well, without considering management of mule deer in MT state wide.

I did ask the biologist in that meeting why they don’t have more say for the area the manage since they should know it better than anyone. I don’t understand why the entire state has all the same season dates seems kinda silly

 

[SAJ-99]

Couple LE areas near me but that don't count in the grand scheme. mtmuley

But doesn’t that say something?

 

[mtmuley]

But doesn’t that say something?

Sure it does. Something most Montana hunters do not want to hear. We have already established that fact over hundreds of pages here. It's not a secret. mtmuley

 

[cgasner1]

It actually kinda pisses me off that when you bring this up everyone acts like we all wanna kill 170” deer every year. I’d just rather not see a pile of 120-130” killed over thanksgiving because someone spent the money on a tank of fuel

 

[SAJ-99]

Sure it does. Something most Montana hunters do not want to hear. We have already established that fact over hundreds of pages here. It's not a secret. mtmuley

But it does tell where the effort should be focused. Stop trying to solve everything everywhere. Maybe focus on a few high quality units in the east?

 

[MTTW]

A few LE units in the east doesn't fix the problem. It simply serves the crowd that wants to kill a 170 buck. All of the problems would still exist.