Montana Mule Deer Mismanagement
- Thread starter rogerthat
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antlerradar
Well-known member
One of the biggest bucks I have ever seen on the Custer traveled five air miles from where I saw him in Oct to where he was shot a month later chasing does next to a well used road. Not much public land in Eastern Montana that is five miles from a big population of private land does. It is also why I have a sly smile when some on tells me all you have to do is get off the road to find a big deer.
brocksw
Well-known member
I know of a 190 typical shot a couple years ago, that was basically living within a half mile of a main gravel road all fall. He ended up getting shot by a rifle hunter during the rut, not far from where he had been living. So I would tend to share your sly smile. It's def not always the case.
The buck I was after in 2021 didn't get more than maybe 3/4 mile from his home range during the rut. He stuck with that same group of does for a week before I wounded him. He showed up again in January, 5.5 miles as the crow flies from where I wounded him, and he stayed there into at least early Feb. But, he had dropped his antlers already and that's the last anyone has ever seen of him to my knowledge.
I've posed this question to Kevin Monteith, what do they see from rutting bucks? Is there always a certain portion that stays close to home and a portion that will travel? Once a buck chooses for one fall, does he do the same next?
His answer was they've seen basically no patterns in the telemetry data that would likely satisfy my request. Some do, some dont. Some change, some dont.
My anecdotal experiences, which are far less than yours I'm certain, is that young MD bucks tend to stick fairly close to home. But, they're on patrol for does a lot, harassing does a lot, hanging around other bucks kinda like satellite bucks, and sometimes it seems aimlessly wandering. More mature bucks that aren't able to gather a harem, seem to be much more strategic about their cruising. They seem to have more purpose when traveling, as if they know where they're going and what they're doing. Like they know where the does are and they have a route picked out to see if they can pick any does off before they're bred by bigger bucks or while the herd buck is distracted by another doe or buck. But an overwhelming majority of the "big" bucks that I find, seem to want to gather a harem and stick with that harem as long as possible. 18',20',21', and 22' I killed or tried killing in the case of 21', bucks that were with the same does for a week or more. The buck I killed this year had been in that area for all of November. I found him by himself in the first week of Nov. Found him with a group of does about 2.5 weeks later no a half mile from where I first found him. Then killed him when he was with that same group of does 5 days after that, only a quarter mile from where I'd seen him the previous time.
But I have seen big bucks kind of appear out of no where during the rut. Problem is, I don't know if that means they traveled a longer distance, or if I just missed them nearby earlier in the year. A couple years ago I found a really nice 6x7 in October, bachelored up. He disappeared for all of November, then I found him again in December a half mile from where he was hanging out in October.
I have hunted the last week of the ND bow season, 1st weekend of January. I found a group of like 25 bucks that had stashed themselves in a canyon. Talk about a tough sneak. I was 72 yards at one point. But my point being here, that I know for a fact that all those bucks werent there all fall. Where they were I'm not sure. How far away they were, I'm not sure of either. But it does make me wonder how movement like that would affect crossectional aerial surveys.
These are only my observations. Probably worth absolutely 0.
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antlerradar
Well-known member
When I was younger, I would often find better bucks gathering up a harem, Not so much any more. If you are a buck that gathers a harem in Montana you will not live long even on private.
I did see a solid buck this year with 15 does on private. Was definitely one of the better deer I’ve seen in the last ten years. I’ve known the guy for a while and stopped in to bs a little. Told him where the buck was. He doesn’t hunt but his kids do. He said he wasn’t even going to let his kids come home to hunt on the place this year because the deer numbers were so bad. Seen the buck a week ago so he at least made the season. Well unless he gets smoked poled
brocksw
Well-known member
It's probably not all that different here. When the orange army is out, it's scorched earth for 16.5 days. Well, at least within eyeshot of the roads. But leaving a nice 160" 3.5-4.5 yr old buck to grow another year is risky business here, back fired on me more than once. Guys with more time and are able to watch multiple deer more often might be more successful at it. Like our big game bio says, it's hard being a mule deer buck, but between hunter harvest and North Dakota winters, it's even harder to get old. IIRC he made it sound like 5.5-6.5 yr old bucks are somewhat rare by comparison. He sees lots of older does though.
Sorry for the long winded replies. I could talk mule deer all day.
BuzzH
Well-known member
Not if you manage based on observed animals instead of imaginary pretend populations found in fantasyland.
Schaaf
Well-known member
On the topic of mandatory reporting, I just received my WY elk survey, I timed myself from the time I opened the envelope until I hit finish online, 6 minutes and 42 seconds.
I wish I would have thought to time myself completing the mailed out MT survey from the time I opened the envelope, found an ink pen, checked appropriate boxes on 6 pages, hand write in "other" comments, grab a Rainier from the fridge, rechecked my selections & comments, stuffed all the pages back in the envelope, talking my dog into licking the envelope (surprised it was postage paid), and driving to the post office.
Can only imagine once FWP opens it how they gather the response, they probably have some fancy high tech document reader/scanner they drop 6 pages in and it compiles all the data into the state of art database they use to manage their innovative hunting regulations and season structures; that allows them to quickly react and adjust to better manage the resource.
FI460
Well-known member
I think that is usually called a temporary technician. They cost about $10.75/hr.
Just completed my AZ deer survey online. It took me 1 minute and 26 seconds.
pyrotechnic
Well-known member
I just got my annual prank call. Really awesome to try to remember what districts you hunted while trying to get dinner at a bar and grill. Also wonder how they know I'm not planning on running down the last muledeer buck in MT with my snowmobile this weekend and executing it with my hawkins....just like my great great grandpappy.
Mallardsx2
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In Georgia it takes 30 seconds to add your kill to your app. Literally 30 seconds and it is added to the statewide deer kill data as soon as you have internet service….
I agree they always call at the most inopportune time, almost sucks having a successful year too with how bad deer numbers are, want to tell them how bad it was out there but telling them you killed a buck doesn’t validate that very much..
I usually play phone tag for weeks. Efficient system
SwaggyD
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I hope I get a call. Been a few years. Didn’t even call me when I drew a breaks elk rifle tag.
Mallardsx2
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To other's points, the western states don't want to know what's being killed. They truly don't. They only care about selling tags and if they found out how many people killed from one year to the next, they might actually have to make some adjustments.
This is how most of the western states operate. It's all about the $$$$ from license sales.
This is how most of the western states operate. It's all about the $$$$ from license sales.
Deer are getting no favors with the weather like it is in southeastern Montana right now. Following this blizzard with below zero temps for over a week. Going to be tough on them real early into the winter already.
#keepthatblackpowderdry
#traditional
#keepthatblackpowderdry
#traditional
More hashtags we can add after the legislature convenes in January:
#InLinesComing2023
#CheckBillDrafts
Those hard winter weather comments could apply to Region 3, also. This is looking a lot like 1996-97 and 2010-11. Gonna be some fat scavengers come April.
