Montana mule deer Expectations.

[Ben Lamb]

There has been a lot of talk here about mule deer and the management of them. So what is the expectation you have when hunting mule deer in Montana? mtmuley

I haven't shot a mule deer buck in Montana in over 14 years of hunting. I've had tons of opportunity to do so, but none met my personal criteria. Even the big, tall 3 that stopped 200 yards in front of my camp. I've had one buck that haunts me. That was a tank up in a special permit area that has a 3 week rifle season. I simply found him too late on my last day to make it happen, but I still see that fat bastard every time I sleep.

My expectations for MT mule deer hunting are this: Have a season structure that benefits the overall health and well-being of the animals so as to ensure their future for the next 100 years. The hunting portion of this is easier to achieve than the habitat portion. I'd like to see a hunting season that is egalitarian, provides opportunity for the type of deer you want to harvest, be it a forky, a doe or a trophy buck, and an approach that focuses on the science of it all, rather than the social conditions that drive the urge for only large antlers.

To me that means shorter season structure with more LE permits for Mule deer in some areas, based on what local sportsmen, landowners and the agency can come up with together.

Mostly, I expect the state of Montana to take habitat restoration seriously rather than gloss over it as an expedient talking point from either side. MT has programs that can be used to improve native habitat across the 7 districts, but the funding is pitiful.

You want to shoot young bucks? I don't care. You want to shoot does? Not my business. trophy bucks? Get after it.

We, collectively want holistic management based on the actual needs of deer? I'm in.

 

[brocksw]

It sounds to me like most of the people in this thread and others using this forum want to cap mule deer tags for residents.

 

[golfer]

It sounds to me like most of the people in this thread and others using this forum want to cap mule deer tags for residents.

I’d be ok with that but if we’re gonna do that I wouldn’t mind seeing the number of NR resident tags cut as well. I understand this would have to be changed by law but I would be fine by that.

 

[Ben Lamb]

I’d be ok with that but if we’re gonna do that I wouldn’t mind seeing the number of NR resident tags cut as well. I understand this would have to be changed by law but I would be fine by that.

NR B11 license sales are far exceeding the statutory cap due to the allowance of turning in the deer portion of the B10 & reissue of it as a B11.

Plus the 500 Come Home To Hunt permits & god knows how many others due to native hunt & the college kid giveaway.

There absolutely should be OTC areas in MT for deer. But the expectation should meet the management criteria. Improving habitat means you improve carrying capacity and distribution across shared landscapes so you end up with less damage to landowners and more opportunity for quality and quantity hunting.

 

[schmalts]

I would expect that the buck to doe ratio goal be what they F&G says is the goal, and clearly it is not.

 

[Fatrack]

My expectations for Montana; I expect to put quite a bit of time and energy into hunting Mule Deer trying to find an old buck, but rarely do. Two years ago spent 14 bonus points on a special tag with the hopes of finding one...nope, ended up with a whitetail.

I love mule deer and hunting them, but its been many years since I shot one in MT.

Considering the strong showing by MT resident hunters with this last round of BS by the F&G with elk; how do we keep the momentum and actually get something changed for Mule Deer?

A couple things we could start with that would have a positive impact on the general herd:

1. Eliminate Doe Tags
2. General Seasons close at the end of Oct.

MT is capable of having great mule deer hunting and big bucks if we could get some age on them. If you need opportunity and meat in the freezer; that's what whitetails are for. Mule Deer need some help.

 

[8andcounting]

NR B11 license sales are far exceeding the statutory cap due to the allowance of turning in the deer portion of the B10 & reissue of it as a B11.

Plus the 500 Come Home To Hunt permits & god knows how many others due to native hunt & the college kid giveaway.

There absolutely should be OTC areas in MT for deer. But the expectation should meet the management criteria. Improving habitat means you improve carrying capacity and distribution across shared landscapes so you end up with less damage to landowners and more opportunity for quality and quantity hunting.

Don’t forget the landowner sponsored deer tags . That’s the route most of my group is going this year . Should be 100% draw . I won’t do it cuz I’m trying to burn my elk permit points

 

[8andcounting]

My expectations for Montana; I expect to put quite a bit of time and energy into hunting Mule Deer trying to find an old buck, but rarely do. Two years ago spent 14 bonus points on a special tag with the hopes of finding one...nope, ended up with a whitetail.

I love mule deer and hunting them, but its been many years since I shot one in MT.

Considering the strong showing by MT resident hunters with this last round of BS by the F&G with elk; how do we keep the momentum and actually get something changed for Mule Deer?

A couple things we could start with that would have a positive impact on the general herd:

1. Eliminate Doe Tags
2. General Seasons close at the end of Oct.

MT is capable of having great mule deer hunting and big bucks if we could get some age on them. If you need opportunity and meat in the freezer; that's what whitetails are for. Mule Deer need some help.

Agreed totally . In my personal opinion, there should not be 1 single mule deer doe shot in Montana , for atleast a few years if not forever .

 

[8andcounting]

I know a guy signed up for a game damage hunt for deer in 703. The Fwp called him last week they have a landowner 10 miles east of circle that wants him to come and would like him to buy 5 more tags that the Fwp will sell him . Unbelievable that Montana treats mule deer like I treat mice . I kill every one I can .

 

[SwaggyD]

I was lucky enough to kill (not harvest, I’m a hunter, not farmer) this guy 2 years ago. He’s large and was blessed with great genetics. He was killed on private land and was 5.5-6.5 years old (I didn’t grab a tooth for aging, long story). There was public around but that isn’t where he was killed. This is what Montana could potentially be if we would think about the resource and try to get some of these deer some age. This guy had the genetics, a lot of mule deer will be that old and 165”, but there is not a lot of guys on here that would not shoot a 6.5 year old deer that is 165”.

 

[Wildabeest]

My expectations are:

• Draw a tag every 1-2 years (quickly changing to 2-3 years) in a general unit
• Hunt with my son (which has become a tradition for us) and treasure the time and experiences we share
• See some awesome country
• Shoot whatever critter(s) exposes itself that we have tags for
• Enjoy good meat and reminisce the shared experience over a far longer time than the hunt itself

Yes, I’m probably part of the problem, but I’m taking what MT is giving. And at this point in time it’s “opportunity”. I won’t bitch or complain if it changes though, because it needs to. Unless they just shift the “opportunity” to MOGA, then I’ll bitch and complain!

 

[SwaggyD]

My expectations are:

• Draw a tag every 1-2 years (quickly changing to 2-3 years) in a general unit
• Hunt with my son (which has become a tradition for us) and treasure the time and experiences we share
• See some awesome country
• Shoot whatever critter(s) exposes itself that we have tags for
• Enjoy good meat and reminisce the shared experience over a far longer time than the hunt itself

Yes, I’m probably part of the problem, but I’m taking what MT is giving. And at this point in time it’s “opportunity”. I won’t bitch or complain if it changes though, because it needs to. Unless they just shift the “opportunity” to MOGA, then I’ll bitch and complain!

Nobody will blame you. That’s the reason I still hunt. Only with my dad. He understands it and moved here in 1974. Brought up a good point that I hadn’t thought of. Maybe something like Special Draw 20% that get to hunt the rut with rifles.

 

[antlerradar]

I was lucky enough to kill (not harvest, I’m a hunter, not farmer) this guy 2 years ago. He’s large and was blessed with great genetics. He was killed on private land and was 5.5-6.5 years old (I didn’t grab a tooth for aging, long story). There was public around but that isn’t where he was killed. This is what Montana could potentially be if we would think about the resource and try to get some of these deer some age. This guy had the genetics, a lot of mule deer will be that old and 165”, but there is not a lot of guys on here that would not shoot a 6.5 year old deer that is 165”.

That is a very nice buck. I agree with what you are writing, but am going to correct you a bit. There are a lot of deer that will get old and never break 140, on the other hand a deer like yours will likely push 165 at age 3 and be a nice 4x4 at age 2. The reason we have trouble growing bucks like yours is because it is very hard for hunters to hold off of a 165 inch three year old or even a pretty little 2 year old 4 point, yet that five year old three point gets a pass.

 

[antlerradar]

A few more buck from the past to show what Montana has produced.

This buck was taken within walking distance from where I grew up. Shot in 1961 and has a typical frame that nets over 200. I sure would like to know what has happened to this buck. The hunter was from Harrisburg PA.


This buck was taken by Avon Fjell in the late fifty's. Avon took the buck to a local big buck contest, won the contest and sold the head to a Nebraska hunter for a grand total of 75 dollars.

Two of the monsters that use to hang in the print shop at St. Labre. I don't know much about the nontypical, I think it is a Crow Rez buck. I do have some history with the other. Back in 1980 rumors started spreading about a monster "forty inch" buck living in a nearby canyon. The buck is 37 inches wide. Dad and I hunted there a few times and never saw the buck, but did see the biggest set of deer tracks I have ever seen. I can still remember dad commenting on how those tracks had to have been left by a monster of a buck even though I was 14 at the time. A few years later I found a set of sheds with the same upturned mainbeams and other similar characteristics. The manager of the print shop at St Labre had many big deer hanging in the shop. Some he had shot, some he had bought from other Native Americans. When I saw this buck in the print shop, I knew it was the buck I found the antlers from in the early 80's and certainly the forty incher of 1980. I never could get a straight story from the manager and it is likely he may not have known the true story. When he retired he sold all the heads in the print shop to a collector. I would sure like to know were these bucks are now.

 

[brocksw]

Interesting document on the FWP site.

 

[bigsky2]

Interesting document on the FWP site.

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I'd like to see a survey presented to Montana residents where they ask "How important is it to you to hunt mule deer in the rut?" rather than "How important is it to you to hunt mule deer every year?"

 

[MTTW]

That is a very nice buck. I agree with what you are writing, but am going to correct you a bit. There are a lot of deer that will get old and never break 140, on the other hand a deer like yours will likely push 165 at age 3 and be a nice 4x4 at age 2. The reason we have trouble growing bucks like your is because it is very hard for hunters to hold off of a 165 inch three year old or even a pretty little 2 year old 4 point, yet that five year old three point gets a pass.

How do we change that? Do you believe that reducing buck kill by 50 percent through le permits without changing the season timing would fix that? 33 percent?

 

[Skynard]

There are mule deer in MT. Hunting is not just about killing a 150" plus buck. If you want to go and shoot at mule deer, go. It's a great place to do so.

 

[MTTW]

The survey above is 11 years old. Mule deer hunting has deteriorated drastically in 11 years.

 

[brocksw]

The survey above is 11 years old. Mule deer hunting has deteriorated drastically in 11 years.

Seems to me everything in MT for elk and deer is out of date.