Montana Mountain Lion- The Rookie Hunt

[Gerald Martin]

Elk hunter- here's a link to the Montana FWP cat gender ID quiz.
http://fwp.mt.gov/education/hunter/mountainLionID/default.html

The absolute best way to tell for sure is to climb the tree and lift the tail. On this cat we could clearly see the vulva under the base of the tail.
A N.R.tag is $350. plus a $50 trophy fee if you kill.

 

[Gerald Martin]

I showed my kids the video of the lion in the tree with the hounds barking. Ten minutes later I went into the livingroom to find this.

 

[wingman1]

Gm kill a booner if that's what you want. Don't let someone else's agenda influence you otherwise. The cat numbers are under good management thanks to fwp and the Montana houndsmen association.

 

[BuzzH]

There is no way you will kill 21 lions by issuing 25-26 permits. Who knows who will draw the permits?

I dont mean this in a disrespectful way, but in Randy11's case, his odds of filling that cat permit he has without owning dogs or begging a houndsmen for a hunt...are just about zero. What if all 25 permits are issued to people that dont use hounds or have access to hounds?

The odds are...not one cat will be killed.

Thats not proper management...thats a joke.

What I'm looking at with the data I have is that the lion harvest was staying pretty much the same for 20+ years. My observations of tracks as well as lion sightings stayed pretty much the same as well in those 20+ years. That told me that with 100 harvested cats per year, the lion population was being managed on a sustainable level. There were enough around to hunt, but not so many they were impacting deer populations.

That sustainable system was dumped on its head because a bunch of weekend warrior houndsmen were pissed because the quotas were filling before they could hunt on their weekends off...and because they couldnt hold out for a "trophy" tom.

The vocal minority got their way and slapped the face of every elk and deer hunter in the state of Montana. The Montana Houndsmen Association has successfully polarized a huge segment of the hunters in Montana...and thats just a wonderful thing.

Not jumping on you at all...but did you lobby AGAINST the trophy status?

 

[BuzzH]

Gm kill a booner if that's what you want. Don't let someone else's agenda influence you otherwise. The cat numbers are under good management thanks to fwp and the Montana houndsmen association.

Yeah, about as good as the wolf management...

I used to like to wave at those guys wearing the Montana houndsmen assocation hats when I was trapping bobcats...with a bundle of snares in one hand and a couple 330's in the other...

I miss Montana sometimes.

 

[wingman1]

That cat is in trouble, if not from the two little hounds then by momma.

 

[BuzzH]

Gerald,

Sorry for the hijack...and good luck on your hunt. Hope you get the cat you're looking for.

 

[belly-deep]

Belly Deep and BuzzH, I don't want to get into a whizzing match here with you because there's a pretty good chance you both know more about this than me.

First off, I know very little about lions, but I do know that after the rut, both buck and bulls split off from the herds and are feeding constantly to try and put some weight back on, so they are excellent targets for cats. If you watch some of Ryan Hatch's videos he walks all over the strip finding lion-killed GIANT bucks. Lions are really hard on them.

Second off, I'm not against cat hunting at all, but like I said in a previous post, most everyone who buys a hunting license of some sort buys a deer/elk tag. A small percentage buy lion tags, yet creating trophy lion units impacts our deer and elk herds in a negative way. A few trophy cat units would be fine by me, but to have them all over the western part of the state--just to provide opportunity for a small group of hunters--seems a little unfair to me.

Third, I'm not trying to rake you over the coals for this so, please don't read any animosity into my posts.

Fourth, I actually think the wolves are just as damaging. I'm not disputing the numbers Buzz put out, but think about this. A lion comes into an area where deer are in the winter and picks one off here and there. Wolves come in and chase the deer all over hell until they get one down. Then they do it the next day and the next. While they may only eat a certain number of them during a winter, I wonder how many they end up inadvertently killing by making the prey waste precious calories out running them? As it is, big game animals are barely hanging on by the time spring comes. Running them all over day after day has to have an impact. There would be no way to measure that, but wolves seem to be a much more intrusive predator.

 

[----]

I dont mean this in a disrespectful way, but in Randy11's case, his odds of filling that cat permit he has without owning dogs or begging a houndsmen for a hunt...are just about zero.

I know you're just using me as an example, but my ego needs to defend itself.

From 1980-2005 I saw a total of 3 mountain lions while hunting elk and deer. From 2005-2009 I've seen 9 cats.

You're not the only one that's been bumping into lions without looking for them. With the amount of time I spend in my unit, and the amount of lions in the unit, the odds are much greater than zero that I fill that tag- regardless to whether or not I find someone with dogs. I can assure you, that if I didn't feel like I had a realistic chance of killing a lion, I wouldn't have applied for the tag.

 

[Moosie]

My boy got a Lion last year :

Good luck Amigo !!!

 

[Mudranger1]

That's a good pic Gerald...nice ram in the background too

 

[shoots-straight]

During the late 80's and early 90's we harvested (killed) 60 to 70 cats a year in Ravalli county. In the decade sense we killed around 70 cats, period. I'm not saying we could sustain the 60 to 70 numbers a year, but we know now how many was too many. We also know how many isn't enough. We're shooting for a kill of around 30 to 40 in the Root now. This should help. I know 4 tags this year we intend to fill.

Randy 11, cats will come to predator calls. You can also track them out, find kills, look for birds, and wait them out there. I've found that the wolves are following the cats around and stealing their kills, forcing the cats to kill again. Some of you remember the trail cam I put on a lion killed moose last year. I had 400 pictures of different preds in 9 days. 4 different wolves, and 4 different cats. With big game herds in the tank, all predators are having impacts, including man.

I've been out setting steal in the ground these last few days. I cut 4 cats, not even trying. No wolves yet. 3 of the cats are shooters. This weekend I hope to photo a cat. I'm hoping to find a nice fat female like Gerald found. A good eater.

 

[tjones]

Been babysitting a pair of Walkers since mid October. Daily runs have got them in shape, now its time.
Looking for my first lion, and like shoots says we have 4 tags to fill.

 

[wingman1]

That's cool about the trail cam pics on a kill. I thought about doing that but thought it was illegal. What's the rule on it?

 

[BuzzH]

wingman1,

Try looking in the regulations.

 

[wingman1]

I don't have regs with me. I'll call fwp for clarification.

 

[BuzzH]

You're on the net...try google...then MTFWP.

I bet it works.

 

[wingman1]

Called fwp. They said I could use a game cam during the season, which is cool! But if I had a hound handler permit or lion tag then I could not hunt that general area or share that info to another hunter in anyway shape or form. Now how big is a general area? Could not get a good definition on that. Anyways sounds legit. You learn something new everyday. Sorry to get off track with your thread GM.

 

[elk_hunter]

Gerald, thanks for the link - for some reason I couldn't access that site last night at home.

 

[notellm]

Good luck on your lion hunt! I hope you find your Tom! I am finally loading up the hounds and getting out in the am. Sure am excited to get out, hounds are ready as well. Great job on drawing out!