Forkyfinder
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The real problem - itd take legislative action to do that. So... good luck?
Montana General Season Structure Proposal
- Thread starter Gerald Martin
- Start date
Schaaf
Well-known member
I believe you have a misunderstanding of what the group that came out with this proposal believes or wants. I believe the vast majority of the group would strongly support much of what you have posted about but it would almost entirely require legislative and governor approval-- good luck. Many of the same people that worked on the proposal helped pass SB 281 from the 2023 session that limits NR's to one doe license if they don't possess a combo license, and even that was a heavy pull, as well as limiting doe harvest in 6 & 7 to only private lands. Getting any meaningful reduction in NR numbers through the Legislature is a long shot at best. I like the idea of Regional caps/pick your region and commented in support of it when FWP pitched the idea last year but who is setting the caps? The same people that have already inflated permit numbers too high. A big reason the group didn't go down that route was the most logical approach to a regional cap would be one that is based on deer population and looking at populations across the regions and total hunters. When looking at those numbers it would be tough to argue based on the data, that we should be diverting deer hunters to Regions 1-5.
Nearly all of the proposal is able to be accomplished through the commission and rule making process and while none of us think its perfect, we do think it would go a long ways and I would strongly support many of the ideas floated here and elsewhere because it can't possibly be worse.
antlerradar
Well-known member
It is easy for us as hunters to say, limit NR, It is not just FWP that counts on NR money. So do many of the businesses in rural MT. Reality is we it is going to be hard to keep NR numbers at the current numbers. Cutting NR numbers is just not going to happen.
Well we will continue to swirl down the toilet bowl.
antlerradar
Well-known member
That would be nice, but when you look at what Justin just posted, I could easily see FWP setting the cap for NR at more than what we currently have. The biggest issue is NR just do not want to hunt in Western MT. Nothing would help eastern Montana more than making hunting in Western MT great again.
It wouldn’t be hard to set a threshold that would be below resident harvest.
Life by the Horns
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The decline of western hunting is sad indeed. Some absolute Giants were taken in Western MT back in the day….
antlerradar
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We could, but there would be no guarantee that shifting NR to western MT would not just cause an equal or even more western MT residents to head east.
antlerradar
Well-known member
If we had come up with a proposal for just 6&7 it likely would have looked different.
That’s already happened. I guess we will see how bad it’s going to get.
antlerradar
Well-known member
I have been hunting Eastern Montana for close to five decades. Not one decade has seen better hunting than the one before it. I thought it couldn't get much worse than after the winter of 2012. Wrong. The current season has not been working out for mule deer. The only future where we keep the current season is limited entry.That’s already happened. I guess we will see how bad it’s going to get.
cgasner1
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I hope these guys all show up to Fwp with a plan. Let’s give them some options and get a change. That’s it that’s all I wanna see is some forward momentum on changing things.
cgasner1
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Wyoming also tried splitting is deer species this year.
cgasner1
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This idea is one that the group came together and created. The amazing thing is how easy it all came together. The even more amazing thing was later on in the process when we added a new member and he ran a bunch of numbers it showed us how ahead of our time we where with this. When you look at the numbers we have it’s pretty crazy for how well this was crafted for not having those at the time. I’m still waiting for someone else to take some initiative and try and push something else.
A few thoughts:
1- put away the rulers and zip up your pants. It does nothing for the conversation.
2- I applaud this group for affecting a meaningful change in doe permits to help reduce doe harvest and improve public deer herds. It’s damn tough to get change implemented, especially change for the better. Look up “The Man in the Arena” by T. Rosevelt for further reading.
3- I expect it taking 10 years to see the sort of population response in these areas that most want to see- more mature bucks available to harvest. Need the does to live and recruit fawns, then re-distribute to public lands, then recruit more fawns on public lands, then those fawns to grow up. Figure 10 years for that. But I’m willing to wait.
4- is there anywhere to get the mule deer population trend data from 70s to present? Saw it once, then it seemed to be scrubbed from the internet. It showed a frightening decline, and should be publicly available for transparency in management.
5- do we have any idea what caused the massive decline in western Montana herds? I would love to hunt mule deer in that habitat, but I can’t bring myself to hunt ghosts and memories.
1- put away the rulers and zip up your pants. It does nothing for the conversation.
2- I applaud this group for affecting a meaningful change in doe permits to help reduce doe harvest and improve public deer herds. It’s damn tough to get change implemented, especially change for the better. Look up “The Man in the Arena” by T. Rosevelt for further reading.
3- I expect it taking 10 years to see the sort of population response in these areas that most want to see- more mature bucks available to harvest. Need the does to live and recruit fawns, then re-distribute to public lands, then recruit more fawns on public lands, then those fawns to grow up. Figure 10 years for that. But I’m willing to wait.
4- is there anywhere to get the mule deer population trend data from 70s to present? Saw it once, then it seemed to be scrubbed from the internet. It showed a frightening decline, and should be publicly available for transparency in management.
5- do we have any idea what caused the massive decline in western Montana herds? I would love to hunt mule deer in that habitat, but I can’t bring myself to hunt ghosts and memories.
SAJ-99
Well-known member
You might be talking about the graph on page 24 of the link? I think it is just region 7, if I read it correctly.
antlerradar
Well-known member
I would bet if you extended that graph out to 2024 you would see a long term downward trend since proactive management was implemented.
Forkyfinder
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Does anyone feel that this will make rifle elk hunting worse in western MT?
cgasner1
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If the cow portion of the plan works it might actually help. Also elk can tell a difference in direct hunting pressure and just pressure. Our current structure pushes a lot of elk into private with archery season. While people may be rambling the hills prior to our rifle opener they won’t be targeting elk and the goal is the elk will wander back off the private
I disagree if they find those private lands with better quality forage they aren’t going back to public.
