Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Deleted member 52937]

Comments are good. Seems like hunters are starting to realize something needs to change. I had a friend send me a link to the proposal today. He’s not on HT or any social media. Kind of nice to see people are hearing about it and are interested in some change.

 

[cgasner1]

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Comments are good. Seems like hunters are starting to realize something needs to change. I had a friend send me a link to the proposal today. He’s not on HT or any social media. Kind of nice to see people are hearing about it and are interested in some change.

I know I drive thru a few places this year and didn’t see them set up checking when they normally are. My question would be are the numbers actually down or was the station closed 30% more this year?

 

[mtmiller]

Which stations?

 

[cgasner1]

Which stations?

Couple I usually drive by in 7

 

[Nameless Range]

I just got off the phone with FWP gathering data on my and my son's deer season.

Though I appreciate the gathering of data, I was asked questions about how many deer I shot, days I hunted, species, points, and where. I was also asked if I harvested these deer during the Heritage Muzzleloader Season as was my son, and because I am not a time traveler, the answer was obviously "No".

 

[bigsky2]

I just got off the phone with FWP gathering data on my and my son's deer season.

Though I appreciate the gathering of data, I was asked questions about how many deer I shot, days I hunted, species, points, and where. I was also asked if I harvested these deer during the Heritage Muzzleloader Season as was my son, and because I am not a time traveler, the answer was obviously "No".

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Well at least they asked you about deer. They haven't been interesting in my deer hunting for at least a couple years.

 

[Nameless Range]

Well at least they asked you about deer. They haven't been interesting in my deer hunting for at least a couple years.

This is the first call of theirs I have answered in years, and the reason I answered was it came through caller ID as Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks. Historically, it has just been a number I don't know, and though they'd leave me a message, I don't answer those.

 

[Deleted member 53219]

This is the first call of theirs I have answered in years, and the reason I answered was it came through caller ID as Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks. Historically, it has just been a number I don't know, and though they'd leave me a message, I don't answer those.

Yeah typically a Bozeman number. Let those go to voicemail.

 

[howler]

I think its great that something is finally getting started, I like the pick your region but have a problem with the archery season dates, whats wrong with keeping the archery season dates as is and open rifle season mid October and run to sometime with in the first 10 days of November, The rut hasn't started yet and your objective will be accomplished,

 

[cgasner1]

I think its great that something is finally getting started, I like the pick your region but have a problem with the archery season dates, whats wrong with keeping the archery season dates as is and open rifle season mid October and run to sometime with in the first 10 days of November, The rut hasn't started yet and your objective will be accomplished,

Montana season structure proposal 2.0

Awhile back a group of us got together and drafted an entire new management plan we would like to see fwp implement. It was met with mixed reviews people either loved or hated. A lot has changed since that original plan was released. We have done pod casts and met with many conversation groups...

www.hunttalk.com

This has been update and pick your region was dropped. As far as the archery it all comes down to only so many days in the fall and trying to balance it fairly across all season as much as possible

 

[Shawn Rene]

Good afternoon folks. We all know that the current status of mule deer in Montana is a topic of great interest and debate. Many folks who have hunted mule deer for decades have expressed frustration and alarm over the downward trend in both quantity of mule deer and quality of hunting experience under the status quo of mule deer management.

Back in February, a group of us met to discuss the future of mule deer after spending years complaining about it online. The group was comprised of volunteers from each region of Montana and included landowners, outfitters, public land hunters and folks with a lot of experience interacting with FWP and the Montana Legislature on wildlife management issues.

During that day long meeting, the group of 9 members of Hunt Talk discussed a variety of concerns ranging from season structure to predation to habitat issues.

There was unanimous consensus among the group that the health of mule deer and other wildlife resources must be priority in making management decisions. It was also unanimously agreed upon that our current management policies are no longer sustainable without causing degradation to mule deer.

Out of that conversation it was agreed upon that the lowest hanging fruit, and perhaps one of the most important to address was the way that Montana has structured it's general hunting seasons over the last 40 years.


Montana is an opportunity state, which is both a blessing and a curse. The North American Model calls for the democratization and egalitarian allocation of the wildlife resource and that is something that this group wanted to maintain. When we looked at overall herd numbers (we're at the bottom end of the 10 year cycle), loss of habitat and the large influx of both resident and non-resident hunters, it became clear that sustaining a liberal harvest strategy on mule deer was going to be problematic.

Also, the group recognized that while the growth of doe licenses has been severely curbed both through legislation (SB 281) and the Commission decisions that eliminated doe hunting in Regions 6 & 7, mule deer were still going to be at higher risk during the standard season structure. In order to bring back our mule deer herds, improve hunting strategies for elk to increase hunter efficacy and reduce overall the number of days it takes to harvest an animal, the group developed the following proposal.

Last week we released drafts of this proposal to various conservation organizations and to FWP for their consideration to begin gathering support for the proposed changes or for input on how to improve our proposals.

If you want more detail, read the attached PDF as these are just the bare-bones highlights.

The Big Change to Deer Hunting:

1.) Deer: Choose your region, choose your species: The idea is to spread around pressure and move the mule deer hunt out of the rut. Hunters must select a region and a species to hunt. This does not limit the hunter on OTC regional B licenses or unit specific B licenses. If you wish to hunt antlered mule deer in eastern Montana, who have to declare the region and the species. This limits your antlered hunting to that area, but you still may utilize a B license in the unit it is valid.

What doesn't change:

1.) Limited entry districts do not revert to the new general season structure, as they have limited pressure already, and can sustain longer general seasons.
2.) The backcountry hunts in the Scapegoat and Bob Marshall, Absaroka Wilderness, etc. stay the same.
3.) Two day youth hunt remains the same. Youth hunters during this two day season will not be limited to single region only and may hunt whitetail or mule deer in accordance with the regulations of the unit they are hunting.


Basic Season Structure:
August 25 - September 30th: Archery for whitetail, mule deer and elk

October 1 - October 31: Antlered Mule Deer. Doe harvest by permit only

October Cow Elk Season: Private land only, two weeks in length applied in the middle of mule deer season.

November 1-30: General Whitetail and Elk season. Liberal cow seasons on private land, permitted/licensed on public with very tight limitations to reduce hunter pressure.

December 7-16: Muzzleloader season

December 10-25: Additional Cow only season.

The cow seasons are meant to provide a meaningful alternative to shoulder seasons, which after a decade of use have both good and bad results. The idea on cow seasons is to focus pressure on areas that need it over a shorter period of time in order to “shock” elk back on to public land where tolerance is far higher and to assist biologists in bringing elk populations closer to objective in over objective units.


Montanans value the opportunity to hunt deer and elk at the same time. They value opportunity above antler size. We believe that this proposal will do several things to guarantee and improve opportunity for future generations by giving up just a tiny fraction of our opportunity today.

This proposal does not call for more limited entry areas, nor does it call for regional caps to limit hunter mobility. We have worked with outfitters, landowners and DIY public land hunters to pull this together to a place where we feel like it's ready for people to review and hopefully support.

I’d like to acknowledge the folks involved in bringing these proposals into what we are presenting here @bigsky2 (Jess Wagner), @cgasner1 (Chris Gasner), @Schaaf ( Justin Schaaf), @Gerald Martin,(Gerald Martin) @MTTW (Tim Willson) @Randy11 ( RandyHodges) @antlerradar (Art Hayes III), @Eric Albus , ( Eric Albus)and @Big Shooter (Rod Paschke) I also like to thank @Ben Lamb for helping facilitate the meeting and organizing our ideas into a coherent proposal.

Great work! I have yet to hunt in Montana but it is high on my list as a non-resident. The Montana draw system is still somewhat confusing. Understanding multiple states and the variations in draw systems is something I am working on grasping more and more.

 

[Treeshark]

Calm down Harrynutz, this is the Montana General Season Structure thread.

 

[Life by the Horns]

I would like to see a pick your unit, but as far as limiting season dates, I don't support that at all. The season dates have been the same or decades, and worked in the past. I think FWP need to have a long think about lowering the NR tags and make it a little harder to draw so consistently, but that is unlikely, as they have gotten so used to the NR tag $. If changing dates is a must, change it for the NR first before it's changed for the residents. I live here year round, pay my MT taxes, put up with crappy winters and a whole other host of difficulties living in rural MT, and in my view the NR's should opportunities should be affected long before my opportunities as a resident are!

 

[sclancy27]

I would like to see a pick your unit, but as far as limiting season dates, I don't support that at all. The season dates have been the same or decades, and worked in the past. I think FWP need to have a long think about lowering the NR tags and make it a little harder to draw so consistently, but that is unlikely, as they have gotten so used to the NR tag $. If changing dates is a must, change it for the NR first before it's changed for the residents. I live here year round, pay my MT taxes, put up with crappy winters and a whole other host of difficulties living in rural MT, and in my view the NR's should opportunities should be affected long before my opportunities as a resident are!

If season lengths are equivalent there is no loss in opportunity, NR or Resident.

In any season date change (or limited weapon) everyone crows about a "loss of opportunity" when, by definition, there is no decrease.

Or, "we've always done it this way, so let's keep doing it this way". That is by far the dumbest argument imaginable. MT used to be able to issue 2 buck tags to residents....MT used to have the majority of turkey tags draw....MT has shut down deer seasons in the past....As changes on the landscape are detected, we should be able to adjust regulations accordingly, whether decreasing or increasing tags, changing seasons, etc. Past performance is not a guarantee of future success. Adaptability is key.

 

[cgasner1]

I would like to see a pick your unit, but as far as limiting season dates, I don't support that at all. The season dates have been the same or decades, and worked in the past. I think FWP need to have a long think about lowering the NR tags and make it a little harder to draw so consistently, but that is unlikely, as they have gotten so used to the NR tag $. If changing dates is a must, change it for the NR first before it's changed for the residents. I live here year round, pay my MT taxes, put up with crappy winters and a whole other host of difficulties living in rural MT, and in my view the NR's should opportunities should be affected long before my opportunities as a resident are!

the season dates have remained the same for decades while the weapons have not. In the last 10 years or so the residents days in the field have grown by enough it’s equal to adding 2x the pressure we receive from the nr. I hope when it comes to the season setting time you look in the mirror and ask what can I do to help rather than point a finger.

 

[DFS]

Is there a chance in hell anything changes? More tags and opportunity I could see happening. The department will continue to boast that they are knocking it out of the park and we will plow forward with the current management. Not sure I even have the stomach to go listen to their bullshit.

 

[cgasner1]

Is there a chance in hell anything changes? More tags and opportunity I could see happening. The department will continue to boast that they are knocking it out of the park and we will plow forward with the current management. Not sure I even have the stomach to go listen to their bullshit.

Look at how far this has come. Will it change hell who knows. I’m just trying to earn the right to be able to complain about it because I put forth some effort. Constant pressure is how this happens and staying home won’t help that.

 

[Gerald Martin]

It’s gone way further than I ever expected.

 

[Life by the Horns]

the season dates have remained the same for decades while the weapons have not. In the last 10 years or so the residents days in the field have grown by enough it’s equal to adding 2x the pressure we receive from the nr. I hope when it comes to the season setting time you look in the mirror and ask what can I do to help rather than point a finger.

I'm not pointing fingers. I'm simply stating that, as a tax paying MT resident, who also spends a significant amount of money for tags (Multi species apps for myself and my 3 kids) I believe the NR's opportunities should be limited before taking aim at limiting residents opportunities. If that still doesn't fix the issue, then that may be the time to consider limiting residents, but not before. NR opps takes a hit.

 

[Life by the Horns]

Here is some finger pointing: I believe the real issue lies squarely on MT FWP.... They are supposed to be "Wildlife Managers", but have become a land holder/land acquisition agency that is hooked on money like an addict to coke. The actual wildlife matters much less than the bottom line.