Montana General Season Structure Proposal

[Gerald Martin]

I read it, Gerald. I don't think u will shock them off the private with a 2 week cow season when 200k people are running around looking for mule deer. Just my opinion. Even with pick your unit and species.

Just for clarification, 200k people are going
to be split between Oct. mule deer and Nov. whitetail across seven different regions.

Not everyone is going to chase mule deer.
As far as your opinion that an October cow season won’t shock them off of private, I am sure that there’s going to be enough variation in results in different locations to support anyone’s opinion whether it will or won’t.

Having said that, since the issue of private land sanctuaries harboring elk is primary an effect of those elk selecting private land as a response to hunting pressure on publicly accessible lands, it stands to reason that changing the time and location of pressure would influence elk to select other areas during the cow season.

Those areas might be private lands that allow no hunting. Nothing that can be done about that since those landowners don’t allow access. But in areas that contain large amounts of public land where cow hunting is limited to Nov. harvest with limited B licenses I think it reasonable to expect that elk will transition to public if there’s less pressure there than on private.

FWP is under legal pressure from the Legislature to keep elk numbers at objective. Their strategy to reduce elk in over objective units has been increasingly liberal bag limits and liberal B license allocations. Most of the hunting pressure then is concentrated on publicly accessible lands targeting the elk that are there during hunting season. Hunters end up killing the “good” elk and pressuring survivors to find sanctuary.

FWP can point to the ways that they are increasing opportunity to satisfy the legislative requirement of managing to objective but the on the ground reality is that in many cases the “problem” elk herds are increasing while the “good” elk herds are decreasing on public.

The October cow season would give FWP a better tool to target elk in the areas most likely to need herd reduction rather than the areas where higher numbers of elk are more tolerated.

 

[Shed God]

I appreciate your response and agree with alot u stated. But my opinion is LE is the way to go with the current hunting season dates. General elk and deer season dates running together. But alot of good things in the proposal.

 

[Schaaf]

Day 1 of the Mule Deer Citizens Advisory Committee

Mule Deer Citizen Advisory Committee | Montana FWP

The advisory committee is comprised of 16 members, which were selected from a pool of 100 applicants. Members were selected based on their familiarity with issues involved with mule deer management and their willingness to work with a team and engage in productive discussions. They represent...

fwp.mt.gov

 

[Irishman]

Instead of trying to change the world, why don't you just have several units that follow the regulations for mule deer that have already been in place in unit 401? It has a 3 week general season, and a few permits for the rut. Trying to change all the seasons for everyone in the state is going to be a hard one to sell to the average hunter, or to FWP.

 

[phutch30]

Not calling you guys out, just asking for contact information. I get why you don't want to publicly give it... I served on the elk group and got lots of hate mail. Put out controversial proposals and expect to get contacted and yes, some will be bad. There are some good things in this, but a lot I disagree with and none of it is backed with any science. Archery season will experience even more over crowding by shortening the season and I also don't see how focusing on mule deer bucks only with a rifle for a month will help the species at all.

Archery season will experience even more overcrowding by shortening the season-

Current 2024 Archery season is 35 44 days , proposed season is 39 37 days. edit.... My math was wrong, I still dont think this will cause crowding, Most of the pressure occurs in in early- Mid Sept


I also don't see how focusing on mule deer bucks only with a rifle for a month will help the species at all.

Its a lot harder to kill mule deer in Oct than mid to late Nov. I dont see how it WONT reduce the buck harvest. Most of the Mule deer buck harvest takes place during the rut, a large % takes place in conjunction with elk hunters shooting targets of opportunity while elk hunting. Take those two factors out and buck harvest will go down. At a min it will allow a larger percentage to make it past 2.5yrs old.

 

[Elktrack]

Day 1 of the Mule Deer Citizens Advisory Committee

Mule Deer Citizen Advisory Committee | Montana FWP

The advisory committee is comprised of 16 members, which were selected from a pool of 100 applicants. Members were selected based on their familiarity with issues involved with mule deer management and their willingness to work with a team and engage in productive discussions. They represent...

fwp.mt.gov

Listening to the meeting is eye opening. He’s explaining just how useless the survey system is. I don’t know know why they even have a survey after listening to this. Amazing. It’s absolutely incredible listening to him defend the current system and make excuses for it. It’s obvious it’s just not viewed as necessary information to them.
This is like trying to come up with a budget and not knowing how many dollars are coming in or being spent.

 

[bigsky2]

Archery season will experience even more overcrowding by shortening the season-

Current 2024 Archery season is 35 days, proposed season is 39 days.


I also don't see how focusing on mule deer bucks only with a rifle for a month will help the species at all.

Its a lot harder to kill mule deer in Oct than mid to late Nov. I dont see how it WONT reduce the buck harvest. Most of the Mule deer buck harvest takes place during the rut, a large % takes place in conjunction with elk hunters shooting targets of opportunity while elk hunting. Take those two factors out and buck harvest will go down. At a min it will allow a larger percentage to make it past 2.5yrs old.

Current 2024 archery season is 44 days, proposed season is 37 days.

 

[phutch30]

Current 2024 archery season is 44 days, proposed season is 37 days.

Your right, I cant add, I never claimed math is my strong suite. LOL I still don't think losing a week will result in crowding. Most of the crowding takes place in mid September.

 

[perma]

Give 'em hell.

 

[SAJ-99]

Listening to the meeting is eye opening. He’s explaining just how useless the survey system is. I don’t know know why they even have a survey after listening to this. Amazing. It’s absolutely incredible listening to him defend the current system and make excuses for it. It’s obvious it’s just not viewed as necessary information to them.
This is like trying to come up with a budget and not knowing how many dollars are coming in or being spent.

Agree, on opportunity vs quality, speaker literally said "hunters want to have their cake and eat it too". (I would add that they also don't want pay for the cake.) FWP takes a lot of flack, but I doubt no one could manage wildlife in Montana without hearing complaints from 33% of the people.

I wish this group the best of luck. My short history with the recommendation of CACs show they are mostly entertainment exercises.

 

[Sytes]

FYI - tic toc:

Public comment MUST REGISTER within the next 50 minutes.

Mule Deer Citizen Advisory Committee | Montana FWP

The advisory committee is comprised of 16 members, which were selected from a pool of 100 applicants. Members were selected based on their familiarity with issues involved with mule deer management and their willingness to work with a team and engage in productive discussions. They represent...

fwp.mt.gov

The MDCAC will take public comment on May 7 and May 8 via Zoom. If you wish to comment you must register by noon on May 6.

You should receive a message similar to this:

"Registration successful. An email containing a Zoom link for the meeting will be emailed to you after noon the day before the meeting."

 

[Forkyfinder]

Listening to the meeting is eye opening. He’s explaining just how useless the survey system is. I don’t know know why they even have a survey after listening to this. Amazing. It’s absolutely incredible listening to him defend the current system and make excuses for it. It’s obvious it’s just not viewed as necessary information to them.
This is like trying to come up with a budget and not knowing how many dollars are coming in or being spent.

Ah yes. Fwp for target C!

 

[thusby]

I’m an NR but I’m all in, let me know how I can help.

 

[Eric Albus]

I’ve been texting a buddy up in souther Sask, just barely across border. SERM(sask environment resource management) has gone scorched earth on the mule deer across the fence. They killed and estimated 2k mulies. According to my buddy, nothing left along border. Going to affect 670 for years. There’s nothing left on our side either.

 

[Hunt West]

I’ve been texting a buddy up in souther Sask, just barely across border. SERM(sask environment resource management) has gone scorched earth on the mule deer across the fence. They killed and estimated 2k mulies. According to my buddy, nothing left along border. Going to affect 670 for years. There’s nothing left on our side either.

Im assuming this was a “CWD management” decision. If rut hunting mule deer and liberal harvest is the cure for CWD then Montana is well ahead of the curve.

 

[Hunt West]

I haven’t made it all the way through the day 1 presentations yet but it sure seems like FWP already has a direction the ship is headed. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[Gerald Martin]

Im assuming this was a “CWD management” decision. If rut hunting mule deer and liberal harvest is the cure for CWD then Montana is well ahead of the curve.

Yep. We’ve been managing for CWD for decades. We just didn’t know it. Doesn’t seem to have slowed the spread of CWD.

 

[Treeshark]

Full support of what you guys put together- but as I said earlier, I think the biggest hurdle you face is reconciling this with FWP’s CWD vision. (Legacy public opinion being neck-and-neck).

 

[Nick87]

Yep. We’ve been managing for CWD for decades. We just didn’t know it. Doesn’t seem to have slowed the spread of CWD.

Thank you for that. You just gave me a great point to present if we ever hold anymore public meetings here on the topic.

 

[8andcounting]

Yep. We’ve been managing for CWD for decades. We just didn’t know it. Doesn’t seem to have slowed the spread of CWD.

When there’s little to no deer left in areas there won’t be much cwd